Jesus Never Existed at All

Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All
Excerpt from NAILED: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All

WATCH DAVID GIVE THIS PRESENTATION AT SKEPTICON 3

Didn’t There Have to Have Been a Jesus?

Most people have never heard of the ancient Greek mythographer Euhemerus, who first theorized that the gods of mythology were deified human beings, and their myths based on legends sprung from accounts of real people and events. So many might be surprised to find that they are Euhemerists on the subject of Jesus. That is to say, though they may not believe Jesus was the divine Christ that Christianity venerates as the Son of God and savior of the world, and may regard accounts of the miracles and wonders attending him as mere legendary accretion, nevertheless they certainly believe there had to have been a central figure that began Christianity.

Perhaps he was just a wandering teacher or an exorcist, an apocalyptic prophet or a zealot who opposed the Romans. Perhaps he was all these things, or even a composite of several such early first-century figures; but at any rate, surely there had to be somebody at the original core of Christianity, arguably the most famous individual in human history. All this seems to be a perfectly reasonable, completely natural assumption to make – so why would anyone be so foolish as to propose that Jesus never existed?

Doesn’t it just make more sense to assume that there was a historical Jesus, even if we are unable to recover the real facts about his life and death? As it turns out, no. The opposite is true: the closer we look at the evidence for Jesus, the less solid evidence we find; and the more we find suspicious silences and curious resemblances to the pagan and Jewish religious ideas and philosophies that preceded Christianity. And once you begins to parse out the origins of this tradition or that teaching from their various sources, the sweater begins unraveling quickly until it becomes very difficult to buy that there ever was – or even could have been – any historical figure at the center.

Christianity, like all religious movements, was born from mythmaking; and nowhere is this clearer than when we examine the context from which Jesus sprang. The supposed historical underpinning of Jesus, which apologists insist differentiates their Christ from the myriad other savior gods and divine sons of the ancient pagan world, simply does not hold up to investigation.

On the contrary, the closer we examine the official story, or rather stories, of Christianity (or Christianities!), the quicker it becomes apparent that the figure of the historical Jesus has traveled with a bodyguard of widely accepted, seldom examined untruths for over two millennia…

It’s true enough that the majority of Biblical historians do not question the historicity of Jesus – but then again, the majority of Biblical historians have always been Christian preachers, so what else could we expect them to say? For all their bluster, the truth is that for as long as there have been Christian writings, there have been critics who have disputed Christian claims and called events from the Gospel stories into question. And since at least the 18th century a growing number of historians have raised serious problems that cast Jesus’ historicity into outright doubt, as we’ll see.

Jesus vs. Julius Caesar

For instance, historian Richard Carrier has pointed out the problems with Christian apologist Douglas Geivett’s claim that the evidence for Jesus’ resurrection meets “the highest standards of historical inquiry,” and is as certain as Julius Caesar’s crossing of the Rubicon in 49 B.C.E. Carrier notes, “Well, it is common in Christian apologetics, throughout history, to make absurdly exaggerated claims, and this is no exception.” Then he compares the evidence for both events:

First of all, we have Caesar’s own account. In contrast, we have nothing written by Jesus, and we do not know who really wrote any of the Gospels. Second, many of Caesar’s enemies reported the crossing of the Rubicon. But we have no hostile or even neutral records of the resurrection until over a hundred years after the supposed event, fifty years after Christian beliefs had become widely known. Third, there are numerous inscriptions, coins, mentions of battles, conscriptions and judgments, which form an almost continuous chain of evidence for Caesar’s entire march. But there is no physical evidence of any kind in the case of Jesus.

Fourth, almost every historian of the period reports the Rubicon crossing, including the most prominent of the Roman age: Suetonius, Appian, Cassius Dio and Plutarch. Moreover, these scholars have shown proven reliability, since a great many of their reports on other matters have been confirmed with material evidence and in other sources. In addition, they all quote and name many different sources, showing a wide reading of the witnesses and documents, and they consistently show a desire to critically examine claims for which there is any dispute. If that wasn’t enough, all of them cite or quote sources written by witnesses, hostile and friendly, of the Rubicon crossing and its repercussions.

But not a single historian mentions the resurrection until the 3rd and 4th centuries, and then only Christian historians. Of the anonymous Gospel authors, only “Luke” even claims to be writing history, but neither Luke nor any of the others ever cite any other sources or show signs of a skilled or critical examination of conflicting claims. None have any other literature or scholarship to their credit that we can test for their skill and accuracy. Their actual identities are completely unknown, and all overtly declare their bias towards persuading new converts.

Finally, the Roman Civil War could not have proceeded as it did if Caesar had not physically crossed the Rubicon with his army into Italy and captured Rome. Yet the only thing necessary to explain the rise of Christianity is a belief — a belief that the resurrection happened. There is nothing that an actual resurrection would have caused that could not have been caused by a mere belief in that resurrection. Thus, an actual resurrection is not necessary to explain all subsequent history, unlike Caesar’s crossing of the Rubicon. Carrier concludes that while we have many reasons to believe that Caesar crossed the Rubicon, all of them are lacking in the case of the resurrection:

“In fact, when we compare all five points, we see that in four of the five proofs of an event’s historicity, the resurrection has no evidence at all, and in the one proof that it does have, it has not the best, but the very worst kind of evidence — a handful of biased, uncritical, unscholarly, unknown, second-hand witnesses. Indeed, you really have to look hard to find another event that is in a worse condition than this as far as evidence goes.”1

So even before we begin to examine Jesus’ resurrection, we are forced to recognize that the historical evidence for it, and all the other extraordinary events of Jesus’ career, is not only far from ironclad, but already suspect. So there is nothing unreasonable about taking a skeptical approach to the Gospels’ image of Jesus in the first place. And it’s important to note that we are not just talking about the divine man-god Jesus coming under fire, because it is not just the supernatural aspects of Jesus that have come under suspicion. Even the mundane and perfectly plausible-sounding aspects of Jesus’ life have proved to be problematic…

EDITOR’S NOTE: Here is a list of other authors and historians that agree with David’s premise…

When the Church mythologists established their system, they collected all the writings they could find and managed them as they pleased. It is a matter altogether of uncertainty to us whether such of the writings as now appear under the name of the Old and New Testaments are in the same state in which those collectors say they found them, or whether they added, altered, abridged or dressed them up.

-Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

The world has been for a long time engaged in writing lives of Jesus… The library of such books has grown since then. But when we come to examine them, one startling fact confronts us: all of these books relate to a personage concerning whom there does not exist a single scrap of contemporary information — not one! By accepted tradition he was born in the reign of Augustus, the great literary age of the nation of which he was a subject. In the Augustan age historians flourished; poets, orators, critics and travelers abounded. Yet not one mentions the name of Jesus Christ, much less any incident in his life.
-Moncure D. Conway [1832 - 1907] (Modern Thought)

It is only in comparatively modern times that the possibility was considered that Jesus does not belong to history at all.

-J.M. Robertson (Pagan Christs)

Many people– then and now– have assumed that these letters [of Paul] are genuine, and five of them were in fact incorporated into the New Testament as “letters of Paul.” Even today, scholars dispute which are authentic and which are not. Most scholars, however, agree that Paul actually wrote only eight of the thirteen “Pauline” letters now included in the New Testament. collection: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon. Virtually all scholars agree that Paul himself did not write 1 or 2 Timothy or Titus– letters written in a style different from Paul’s and reflecting situations and viewpoints in a style different from those in Paul’s own letters. About the authorship of Ephesias, Colossians, and 2 Thessalonians, debate continues; but the majority of scholars include these, too, among the “deutero-Pauline”– literally, secondarily Pauline– letters.”

-Elaine Pagels, Professor of Religion at Princeton University, (Adam, Eve, and the Serpent)

We know virtually nothing about the persons who wrote the gospels we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

-Elaine Pagels, Professor of Religion at Princeton University, (The Gnostic Gospels)

Some hoped to penetrate the various accounts and to discover the “historical Jesus”. . . and that sorting out “authentic” material in the gospels was virtually impossible in the absence of independent evidence.”

-Elaine Pagels, Professor of Religion at Princeton University

We can recreate dimensions of the world in which he lived, but outside of the Christian scriptures, we cannot locate him historically within that world.

-Gerald A. Larue (The Book Your Church Doesn’t Want You To Read)

The gospels are so anonymous that their titles, all second-century guesses, are all four wrong.

-Randel McCraw Helms (Who Wrote the Gospels?)

Far from being an intimate of an intimate of Jesus, Mark wrote at the forth remove from Jesus.

-Randel McCraw Helms (Who Wrote the Gospels?)

Mark himself clearly did not know any eyewitnesses of Jesus.

-Randel McCraw Helms (Who Wrote the Gospels?)

All four gospels are anonymous texts. The familiar attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John come from the mid-second century and later and we have no good historical reason to accept these attributions.

-Steve Mason, professor of classics, history and religious studies at York University in Toronto (Bible Review, Feb. 2000, p. 36)

The question must also be raised as to whether we have the actual words of Jesus in any Gospel.

-Bishop John Shelby Spong

Many modern Biblical archaeologists now believe that the village of Nazareth did not exist at the time of the birth and early life of Jesus. There is simply no evidence for it.

-Alan Albert Snow (The Book Your Church Doesn’t Want You To Read)

But even if it could be proved that John’s Gospel had been the first of the four to be written down, there would still be considerable confusion as to who “John” was. For the various styles of the New Testament texts ascribed to John- The Gospel, the letters, and the Book of Revelations– are each so different in their style that it is extremely unlikely that they had been written by one person.

-John Romer, archeologist & Bible scholar (Testament)

It was not until the third century that Jesus’ cross of execution became a common symbol of the Christian faith.

-John Romer, archeologist & Bible scholar (Testament)

What one believes and what one can demonstrate historically are usually two different things.

-Robert J. Miller, Bible scholar, (Bible Review, December 1993, Vol. IX, Number 6, p. 9)

When it comes to the historical question about the Gospels, I adopt a mediating position– that is, these are religious records, close to the sources, but they are not in accordance with modern historiographic requirements or professional standards.

-David Noel Freedman, Bible scholar and general editor of the Anchor Bible series (Bible Review, December 1993, Vol. IX, Number 6, p.34)


It is said that the last recourse of the Bible apologist is to fall back upon allegory. After all, when confronted with the many hundreds of biblical problems, allegory permits one to interpret anything however one might please.

-Gene Kasmar, Minnesota Atheists

Paul did not write the letters to Timothy to Titus or several others published under his name; and it is unlikely that the apostles Matthew, James, Jude, Peter and John had anything to do with the canonical books ascribed to them.

-Michael D. Coogan, Professor of religious studies at Stonehill College (Bible Review, June 1994)

A generation after Jesus’ death, when the Gospels were written, the Romans had destroyed the Jerusalem Temple (in 70 C.E.); the most influential centers of Christianity were cities of the Mediterranean world such as Alexandria, Antioch, Corinth, Damascus, Ephesus and Rome. Although large number of Jews were also followers of Jesus, non-Jews came to predominate in the early Church. They controlled how the Gospels were written after 70 C.E.

-Bruce Chilton, Bell Professor of Religion at Bard College (Bible Review, Dec. 1994, p. 37)

James Dunn says that the Sermon on the Mount, mentioned only by Matthew, “is in fact not historical.”

How historical can the Gospels be? Are Murphy-O-Conner’s speculations concerning Jesus’ baptism by John simply wrong-headed? How can we really know if the baptism, or any other event written about in the Gospels, is historical?

-Daniel P. Sullivan (Bible Review, June 1996, Vol. XII, Number 3, p. 5)

David Friedrich Strauss (The Life of Jesus, 1836), had argued that the Gospels could not be read as straightforward accounts of what Jesus actually did and said; rather, the evangelists and later redactors and commentators, influenced by their religious beliefs, had made use of myths and legends that rendered the gospel narratives, and traditional accounts of Jesus’ life, unreliable as sources of historical information.

-Bible Review, October 1996, Vol. XII, Number 5, p. 39

The Gospel authors were Jews writing within the midrashic tradition and intended their stories to be read as interpretive narratives, not historical accounts.

-Bishop Shelby Spong, Liberating the Gospels

Other scholars have concluded that the Bible is the product of a purely human endeavor, that the identity of the authors is forever lost and that their work has been largely obliterated by centuries of translation and editing.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “Who Wrote the Bible,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

Yet today, there are few Biblical scholars– from liberal skeptics to conservative evangelicals- who believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John actually wrote the Gospels. Nowhere do the writers of the texts identify themselves by name or claim unambiguously to have known or traveled with Jesus.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The Four Gospels,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

Once written, many experts believe, the Gospels were redacted, or edited, repeatedly as they were copied and circulated among church elders during the last first and early second centuries.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The Four Gospels,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

The tradition attributing the fourth Gospel to the Apostle John, the son of Zebedee, is first noted by Irenaeus in A.D. 180. It is a tradition based largely on what some view as the writer’s reference to himself as “the beloved disciple” and “the disciple whom Jesus loved.” Current objection to John’s authorship are based largely on modern textural analyses that strongly suggest the fourth Gospel was the work of several hands, probably followers of an elderly teacher in Asia Minor named John who claimed as a young man to have been a disciple of Jesus.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The Four Gospels,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

Some scholars say so many revisions occurred in the 100 years following Jesus’ death that no one can be absolutely sure of the accuracy or authenticity of the Gospels, especially of the words the authors attributed to Jesus himself.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The catholic papers,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

Three letters that Paul allegedly wrote to his friends and former co-workers Timothy and Titus are now widely disputed as having come from Paul’s hand.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The catholic papers,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

The Epistle of James is a practical book, light on theology and full of advice on ethical behavior. Even so, its place in the Bible has been challenged repeatedly over the years. It is generally believed to have been written near the end of the first century to Jewish Christians. . . but scholars are unable conclusively to identify the writer.

Five men named James appear in the New Testament: the brother of Jesus, the son of Zebedee, the son of Alphaeus, “James the younger” and the father of the Apostle Jude.

Little is known of the last three, and since the son of Zebedee was martyred in A.D. 44, tradition has leaned toward the brother of Jesus. However, the writer never claims to be Jesus’ brother. And scholars find the language too erudite for a simple Palestinian. This letter is also disputed on theological grounds. Martin Luther called it “an epistle of straw” that did not belong in the Bible because it seemed to contradict Paul’s teachings that salvation comes by faith as a “gift of God”– not by good works.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The catholic papers,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

The origins of the three letters of John are also far from certain.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The catholic papers,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

Christian tradition has held that the Apostle Peter wrote the first [letter], probably in Rome shortly before his martyrdom about A.D. 65. However, some modern scholars cite the epistle’s cultivated language and its references to persecutions that did not occur until the reign of Domitian (A.D. 81-96) as evidence that it was actually written by Peter’s disciples sometime later.

Second Peter has suffered even harsher scrutiny. Many scholars consider it the latest of all New Testament books, written around A.D. 125. The letter was never mentioned in second-century writings and was excluded from some church canons into the fifth century. “This letter cannot have been written by Peter,” wrote Werner Kummel, a Heidelberg University scholar, in his highly regarded Introduction to the New Testament.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The catholic papers,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

The letter of Jude also is considered too late to have been written by the attested author– “the brother of James” and, thus, of Jesus. The letter, believed written early in the second century.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, “The catholic papers,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

According to the declaration of the Second Vatican Council, a faithful account of the actions and words of Jesus is to be found in the Gospels; but it is impossible to reconcile this with the existence in the text of contradictions, improbabilities, things which are materially impossible or statements which run contrary to firmly established reality.

-Maurice Bucaille (The Bible, the Quran, and Science)

The bottom line is we really don’t know for sure who wrote the Gospels.

-Jerome Neyrey, of the Weston School of Theology, Cambridge, Mass. in “The Four Gospels,” (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)

Most scholars have come to acknowledge, was done not by the Apostles but by their anonymous followers (or their followers’ followers). Each presented a somewhat different picture of Jesus’ life. The earliest appeared to have been written some 40 years after his Crucifixion.

-David Van Biema, “The Gospel Truth?” (Time, April 8, 1996)

So unreliable were the Gospel accounts that “we can now know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus.”

-Rudolf Bultmann, University of Marburg, the foremost Protestant scholar in the field in 1926

The Synoptic Gospels employ techniques that we today associate with fiction.

-Paul Q. Beeching, Central Connecticut State University (Bible Review, June 1997, Vol. XIII, Number 3, p. 43)

Josephus says that he himself witnessed a certain Eleazar casting out demons by a method of exorcism that had been given to Solomon by God himself– while Vespasian watched! In the same work, Josephus tells the story of a rainmaker, Onias (14.2.1).

-Paul Q. Beeching, Central Connecticut State University (Bible Review, June 1997, Vol. XIII, Number 3, p. 43)

For Mark’s gospel to work, for instance, you must believe that Isaiah 40:3 (quoted, in a slightly distorted form, in Mark 1:2-3) correctly predicted that a stranger named John would come out of the desert to prepare the way for Jesus. It will then come as something of a surprise to learn in the first chapter of Luke that John is a near relative, well known to Jesus’ family.

-Paul Q. Beeching, Central Connecticut State University (Bible Review, June 1997, Vol. XIII, Number 3, p. 43)

The narrative conventions and world outlook of the gospel prohibit our using it as a historical record of that year.

-Paul Q. Beeching, Central Connecticut State University (Bible Review, June 1997, Vol. XIII, Number 3, p. 54)

Jesus is a mythical figure in the tradition of pagan mythology and almost nothing in all of ancient literature would lead one to believe otherwise. Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it.

-C. Dennis McKinsey, Bible critic (The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy)

The gospels are very peculiar types of literature. They’re not biographies.

-Paula Fredriksen, Professor and historian of early Christianity, Boston University (in the PBS documentary, From Jesus to Christ, aired in 1998)

The gospels are not eyewitness accounts

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

We are led to conclude that, in Paul’s past, there was no historical Jesus. Rather, the activities of the Son about which God’s gospel in scripture told, as interpreted by Paul, had taken place in the spiritual realm and were accessible only through revelation.

-Earl Doherty, “The Jesus Puzzle,” p.83

Before the Gospels were adopted as history, no record exists that he was ever in the city of Jerusalem at all– or anywhere else on earth.

-Earl Doherty, “The Jesus Puzzle,” p.141

Even if there was a historical Jesus lying back of the gospel Christ, he can never be recovered. If there ever was a historical Jesus, there isn’t one any more. All attempts to recover him turn out to be just modern remythologizings of Jesus. Every “historical Jesus” is a Christ of faith, of somebody’s faith. So the “historical Jesus” of modern scholarship is no less a fiction.

-Robert M. Price, “Jesus: Fact or Fiction, A Dialogue With Dr. Robert Price and Rev. John Rankin,” Opening Statement

It is important to recognize the obvious: The gospel story of Jesus is itself apparently mythic from first to last.

-Robert M. Price, professor of biblical criticism at the Center for Inquiry Institute (Deconstructing Jesus, p. 260)

MORE BOOKS AND SOURCES ON THIS SUBJECT – recommended by David Fitzgerald

And Then There’s This Guy

That said, there is one review that I do want to respond to here; not simply because it’s almost completely wrong, but because it’s often so ass-backwards wrong in ways that actually prove the points I argue. (and because demonstrating all this gives a surprisingly high entertainment value) It’s the screed-in-book review’s clothing from an Australian blogger, Tim O’Neill. O’Neill calls himself a “wry, dry, rather sarcastic, eccentric, silly, rather arrogant Irish-Australian atheist bastard,” so you would think we would get along like a house on fire. Sadly, no. As George Bernard Shaw pointed out long ago, if you roast an Irishman on the spit, you can always get another Irishman to turn the crank…

True confession time: O’Neill hasn’t impressed me to date; I typically have run across him in the comment threads of atheist blogs, usually snarking around and defending himself against charges of being an abrasive douchebag. He often acts as if he’s spearheading a one-man quest for rationality and can’t understand why everyone else doesn’t listen to him. He also gets frequently carried away with his need to: A) be right all the time, even when he’s wrong; and B) castigate the errors of lesser beings with unusually high levels of bitchiness. For instance, he used to regularly show up on Richard Carrier’s blog doing his usual pissy, nitpicking schtick until of course he took it too far and Carrier actually caught him in a lie, which seems to have put an end to his antics on that blog. So in a nutshell, when I run across O’Neill nowadays, my first thought is almost always: what IS this guy’s fucking problem?


O’Neilled: Tons of Mistakes that Show Tim O’Neill Never Investigated Nailed at All

It seems to boil down to a weirdly obsessive vendetta against proponents of the Jesus Myth theory. This is the first of several vindictive straw-man generalizations that permeates O’Neill’s screed. Now, I’m the first to agree with O’Neill that there are plenty of crackpot alternative Jesus theories being promoted in truly terrible half-baked books by amateurs (Kersey Graves’ The World’sSixteen Crucified Saviors, Luigi Cascioli’s The Case against Jesus, Joseph Atwill’s Caesar’s Messiah, andBaigent/Leigh/Lincoln’s infamous Holy Blood, Holy Grail all spring to mind, and there are many more); in that respect we’re both on the same page. In fact, if anything, I dislike them even more than he does; the crackpots just make the job of legitimate Mythicists harder. But for O’Neill to lump together the crank theories with the serious scholarship being done by Doherty, Price, Carrier, et al. is just asinine.

When I first read O’Neill’s review of Nailed, I found it curious that he describes me as an atheist activist on the board of SF Atheists and “the founder of an atheist film festival,” all true enough – but which conveniently ignores any of my relevant credentials, like my degree in history, my association with CSER (The Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion), or that I’ve been specifically researching the Historical Jesus question for more than ten years. And I knew there was something seriously flawed when he (rightly) mentioned that Nailed has certainly received high praise from prominent figures – but then identified Richard Carrier and Robert M. Price (who he misnames “R.G. Price”) as “atheist activists, amateurs and hobbyists.”

Atheist activists, amateurs and hobbyists? Price and Carrier both have relevant PhDs, both are multiply-published authors, academics, philosophers and biblical scholars, have been active on the scene for well over a decade, and are major contributors to some of the most important and ground-breaking biblical publications in recent years. Dr. Price is a professor of biblical criticism, a member of the Society of Biblical Literature as well as the Jesus Seminar, CSER, and edited the Journal of Higher Criticism. Dr. Carrier is the former head of the Secular web, and has repeatedly been recognized as one of the most influential atheist thinkers on the planet today. Tim O’Neill, I know Richard Carrier. Richard Carrier is a friend of mine. And you, sir, are no Richard Carrier.

O’Neill tries to stigmatize Nailed and Doherty’s The Jesus Puzzle and “most Myther books” for being “self-published” books – which only shows how little he knows about the realities of the publishing world today. Again, I do have sympathy for his suspicions (or I would, if he wasn’t being such a douche); but the truth is self-publishing isn’t just for vanity presses any more, as he’ll find out if he ever decides to go from being a blog gadfly and actually make the effort to publish something. Three different publishers were interested in publishing Nailed, but the decision to self-publish just made more sense financially. And oh yes, the manuscript was peer reviewed, beta-read, edited, line-proofed, corrected, formatted and re-formatted (as he might have known just by reading the 6 pages of acknowledgements!) His constant little jabs at denigration just come off as a mix of jealousy and desire for self-promotion.

Yet another grossly uninformed allegation is his ridiculous assertion that all “Mythers” are just out to push an atheist agenda, so they start with their conclusion, and spin half-baked ad hoc theories purely out of political motivations, like creationists. This would be laughable if it wasn’t so insulting and patronizing. My atheist activism has absolutely nothing to do with whether Jesus was real or not. I don’t need for there to have been a mythical Jesus; the bible fails on its own just fine with or without a genuine founder from Nazareth.

The truth is something O’Neill can’t seem to fathom: I never set about to be a “Myther” – in fact, it was quite the opposite. Like the overwhelming majority of atheists, twelve years ago it had never even occurred to me there might never have been a historical Jesus. Then one day (after reading Ken Smith’s brilliant Ken’s Guide to the Bible) I became curious to find out what Jesus really said and did, and how much was just legendary accretion. Once I began to look into the sorry state of the evidence for Jesus, I realized (as have so many others before me) that something is seriously flawed with the notion of a “Historical Jesus.”

Honestly, I get that the Myth Theory is still a hard sell for many, so I have sympathy for anyone with initial skepticism. Weshould be skeptical, especially of books by non-specialists in the field, like mine. And at the end of the day, it’s no skin off my nose if anyone else accepts it or not. I’m not dogmatic about it. I’m not a masochist or a contrarian. I defend the Jesus Myth theory for just one simple reason: I am sincerely convinced that it’s right. I’m certainly willing to reject it if it turns out to be wrong; indeed, there have been many supporting arguments and lines of evidence that Ihave discarded because they did turn out to be wrong. As I say in the book, if I’m wrong, I want to know. But so far, after more than a decade of personally subjecting the Jesus Myth explanation to the crucible time and again, I’m more convinced than ever that it remains the best answer to the problem.

Maybe if O’Neill could manage to understand that Mythicists like me actually have reasons for our position, and that the dominant historical opinion on Jesus is seriously flawed, we could have an actual discussion. But he doesn’t seem interested in real conversation; he wants a chew toy. In fact, I can’t shake the feeling that all O’Neill really craves is notoriety – to be the Perez Hilton of atheism.

 

O’Neill’s False “Fitzgerald’s False Dichotomy”

On to the specifics. Over and over, O’Neill gets his facts wrong; makes pronouncements with a Bill O’Reillyesque voice of authority when he clearly doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about; twists my actual points into a ridiculous straw man, or, as we can see here, just makes things up that only exist in his head. Here’s O’Neill, complaining about how “I frame the debate”:

“So from the start Fitzgerald sets up an artificial dichotomy, with conservative apologists defending a traditional orthodox Jesus on one hand and brave “critics who (dispute) Christian claims” who don’t believe in any Jesus at all on the other.And nothing in between. This is nonsense, because it ignores a vast middle ground of scholars – liberal Christian, Jewish, atheist and agnostic – who definitely “dispute Christian claims” but who also conclude that there was a human, Jewish, historical First Century preacher as the point of origin for the later stories of “Jesus Christ”.”

I agree: That is nonsense, and this nonsensical “dichotomy” is O’Neill’s own creation, not mine. As I explicitly say in the first chapter (and repeat on the back of the book) the evidence has been gathered from all across the theological spectrum. What’s more, I frequently cite the work of the “middle ground of scholars” throughout the book -including several of the ones he claims I’m ignoring - by name. And whenever possible, I point out when I am presenting information that represents the majority opinion of all scholars. So where is O’Neill coming up with this “dichotomy” of his? The truth is, even if the ultimate conclusion in Nailed seems radical, the facts that support it are often considered not radical at all by the majority of Biblical scholars – many have been accepted as the majority opinion for centuries.

But that’s not the Real Jesus!

So much of what I argue should not sound controversial. O’Neill admits as much when he dismisses Myth No. 1 (“The idea that Jesus was a myth is ridiculous!”) as “not really controversial” and that:

“After all, no-one except a fundamentalist apologist would pretend that the evidence about Jesus is not ambiguous and often difficult to interpret with any certainty, and that includes the evidence for his existence.”

He and I are in almost in perfect agreement here. What O’Neill doesn’t seem to grasp is that Nailed was written to highlight and address those very difficulties. Instead, he declares I’m confused and can’t keep the “Jesus of Faith” straight from the “Historical Jesus.” Is he kidding? Are there no Christians in Australia? Either O’Neill forgets that nearly one third of the planet (not just “fundamentalist apologists”!) believes in the Jesus as presented in the Gospels; or to him, the fact matters not at all. Worse, he somehow manages to think that addressing the issue of that Jesus’ historicity is a failingof the book. Unbelievable.

To O’Neill’s mind, none of that mere Christianity is of any interest. He constantly sniffs that the real Jesus remains untouched by the book – the Historical Jesus that he claims all real scholars accept: the “Jewish preacher (that was) the point of origin for the Jesus story simply because that makes the most sense of all the evidence.” First of all, as one might have guessed from the subtitle, or heard me say repeatedly in the book, Nailed was written to debunk the Christian myths that prop up the official story of Jesus. So perhaps O’Neill shouldn’t be too surprised that the main focus of the book is exactly that: the Jesus of rank-and-file Christianity.

And still, that’s not to say I don’t have anything to weigh in on the Historical Jesus! O’Neill should know that the “Historical Jesus” he touts as being the real Jesus is on no firmer evidentiary ground than the “Jesus of Faith,” something I do focus on in my upcoming book Jesus: Mything in Action. In fact, there is no single “Historical Jesus.” There are scads of various hypothetical and contradictory historical “reconstructions” of him – and none of them based on anything remotely like what an objective observer would consider reliable evidence. This wide variety of secular Jesuses and the problematic historical sources for all of them are symptomatic of the very predicament that prompted me to writeNailed in the first place. But more on that in my guest post on Freethought Blog, “Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?”


Who are the Biblical Historians?

Surprisingly, O’Neill takes objection when I point out something I didn’t expect anyone to have an issue with: that even though the majority of Biblical historians reject the idea that Jesus never existed, the majority of Biblical historians have always been Christian preachers, so what else could we expect them to say? O’Neill insists many scholars may well be Christians and allows that a tiny few (but not many) may be preachers, but “a great many” are definitely not.

I’d be willing to grant him that there are probably more non-Christian biblical scholars today than ever before, but that doesn’t change the fact that from the beginning, biblical studies have always been dominated by Christian clergy of various denominations – and remain so. One simply has to flip through a standard history of biblical studies, or take a roll call of the Society of Biblical Literature any time since its founding in 1880 to quickly see that not only do they freely admit that the entire field was originally an apologetic endeavor, but there has scarcely been a member who was not also a pastor, priest or rabbi.

Even in secular circles today, it is difficult to find a biblical scholar who does not come out of a religious background – even those without a divinity degree. Rabbi Jon D. Levensen, one of today’s most prominent Jewish biblical scholars, notes “It is a rare scholar in the field whose past does not include an intense Christian or Jewish commitment.” (The Hebrew Bible: The Old Testament, and Historical Criticism: Jews and Christians in Biblical Studies, Westminster John Knox Press, 1993, p. 30)

What’s more, as religious scholar Timothy Fitzgerald (no relation) notes in The Ideology of Religious Studies (Oxford University Press, 2000), even among former believers, theological assumptions are pervasive: “even in the work of scholars who are explicitly non-theological, half-disguised theological presuppositions persistently distort the analytical pitch.” (p. 6-7) Again, see “Will The Real Jesus Please Stand Up?” for a deeper examination of these fundamental issues.

Myth No. 2: Jesus Christ – Superstar?

Myth No. 2 (“Jesus was wildly famous – but there was no reason for contemporary historians to notice him … “) looks at the back-pedaling apologists do when confronted with the total lack of contemporary historical corroboration for the events presented in the Gospels. Needless to say, O’Neill misses the entire point and asks why we should expect anyone at the time would have noticed Jesus – since to O’Neill’s thinking, the Jesus depicted in the Gospels – and the spectacular events surrounding him – aren’t even worth discussing, and in his judgment, the “real” Jesus was, in his words, “pretty small fry.” As he puts it:

“Even if we take their accounts at face value, a chanting crowd greeting his entrance to Jerusalem, a trial that no-one witnessed and a run-of-the-mill execution are hardly big news.”

Except of course, if we actually take the gospels at face value, we get considerable more than that: political scandals; a massacre; an empire-wide census and taxation; Heavenly hosts of angels and a miraculous star announcing his birth; prophets declaring him the new messiah; the holy spirit descending from heaven upon him while the voice of God announces Jesus is his son; multitudes following Jesus and spreading news of his teaching and miracles throughout Judea, the Galilee, and beyond the Jordan as far as Syria and the Decapolis; his healing members of the households of the highest ranks of society, including temple leaders, Roman centurions, and royal officials; the prophets Moses and Elijah appear from heaven to speak with him; the entire city of Jerusalem acclaiming Jesus as the messiah, multiple (and illegal) trials before the entire Sanhedrin and many onlookers, the Tetrarch Herod Antipas and his war council, and the Roman governor, who engages with a huge crowd wildly clamoring for Jesus’ death before releasing a notorious rebel; crowds attending his scourging, his humiliating march up to Golgotha, listening to him give a speech, and his long, excruciating execution; followed by hours of supernatural darkness covering “all the land,” two major earthquakes in Jerusalem, the miraculous tearing of the temple curtain, a mass resurrection of famous saints who emerge from their supernaturally-opened graves en masse and wander the streets of Jerusalem, “appearing to many,” Jesus’ return from the grave and multiple appearances to his followers (for a day, or a week, or forty days, depending on who’s telling the story) before ascending to Heaven in front of many witnesses.

O’Neill thinks it’s naive to believe most of these spectacular events happened – Well, good on you, Tim! Neither do we - that’s the entire point. I agree it’s naive to believe the events in the gospels literally happened – but it doesn’t change the fact that over 2.1 billion people do, so it’s hardly a waste of time pointing out how ridiculous it is that there is no corroboration in the historical record for any of these spectacular occurrences. But with his 20-20 tunnel vision, all he can see is how none of this applies to his “historical Jesus.” And he isn’t even right about that.

When I provided the evidence that there indeed werecontemporary commentators – along with the reasons we could expect each of them to discuss Jesus – O’Neill grumbles “Fitzgerald labours mightily to detail all the writers who he claims “should” have mentioned Jesus.” (Why is it if I don’t go into exhaustive detail on one point I’m either being sloppy or making shit up, but when I do take the trouble to provide the information, I’m suddenly “laboring mightily”? You can’t win with this guy – he has all the gusto of a Fox News pundit ragging on Obama) Despite it being right there on paper, O’Neill not only denies it – he goes on to inadvertently demonstrates my point. His Shrillness continues:

“Yet Fitzgerald again claims that these writers do mention other figures similar to Jesus. “In many cases”, he claims, “these same writers have much to say about other much less interesting messiahs – but not Jesus” (p.42) In “many cases”? Which cases? Fitzgerald does not say. And other messiahs are mentioned? Which ones, where and by who? Again, despite this being a key point that should potentially back up and substantiate his creaking argument, he never bothers to tell the reader. The reason is simple – what Fitzgerald is saying here is absolute nonsense.”

Incidentally, perhaps this is a good time to mention the real reason I didn’t list them all out: Nailed was distilled down from a manuscript that was originally not 250 pages, but nearly a whopping 700 pages. So in fact, there’s a lot of information that I don’t mention, and many hard choices I had to make about what to include and what to leave out in a book that’s intended to be a reader-friendly intro to the subject… Just one other hard reality O’Neill will have to face if he ever becomes an author himself. As I cautioned in Ch. 1 (not the only caution of mine that O’Neill ignores…) the book is an all-too-brief thumbnail sketch.

Anyway, here’s where O’Neill makes my point for me. He proceeds to name a few would-be messiahs from the first century: Athronges (Athronges the Shepherd); the unnamed Samaritan Taheb/messiah; Theudas (also known as Theudas the Magician) who is mentioned anachronistically in the book of Acts; and “the Egyptian” another failed Jewish messiah also name-dropped by Luke. (Incidentally, he was probably called “The Egyptian” not because he was from Egypt, but to evoke Moses). In actuality, as I alluded to in the section he quoted, there are many more loser messiahs and messiah-like figures that he could also have brought up: Simon of Peraea, Judas of Galilee, John the Baptist, Simon Magus/Simon of Gitta, Yeshua ben Hananiah, Jonathan the Weaver, Apollonius of Tyana, Carabbas, Simon bar-Giora and still more. (And if you’re interested, I do go into more detail on many of them in “Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?”)

None of these failed messiahs, prophets and rabble-rousers succeeded anywhere near as well as our Jesus of Nazareth. But every one of these loser messiahs did beat Jesus on one crucial matter: all of them managed to leave a trace in the contemporary historical record – so why couldn’t Jesus? If O’Neill is right, the realJesus was just “small fry” and his exploits and supposedly radical new teachings were ignored by history for his entire life – actually, for over a century. But if that’s so, O’Neill (or rather, those historians whom he’s parroting) can’t explain what for me is the central paradox of the Historical Jesus: Either: he did and said all these amazing, earthshaking things – and no one noticed. Or: he was just one more failed messiah of the early first century – and yet after his death, a fringe cult springs up, scattered all across the Roman Empire from Spain to the Egyptian Desert to Asia Minor, made up of bickering house churches that can’t agree about the most fundamental basics of his life and teachings. This oft-encountered “Stealth Messiah” approach to the problem simply doesn’t hold up.

By the way, O’Neill is also wrong when he weirdly (and irrelevantly) claims we have no contemporary sources for Hannibal - though (to his credit) he thanks a commenter for correcting his error by pointing out that we do have a fragment from Book IV of Sosylus’ The Deeds Of Hannibal - even if he does downplays the two passages as “a tiny fragment” that “seems to contain a few lines” – in fact, as you can see here, it’s a bit more than that; two paragraphs with just over a dozen lines. But besides that, O’Neill is unaware that we do have at least one complete and contemporary account of Hannibal in book three of Polybius of Megalopolis’ The Histories, where he not only discusses Hannibal at great length, he also mentions in passing the other authors who “who have dealt with Hannibal and his times” (3.6.1).

Myth no. 3: Forging Josephus

Myth No. 3 is where O’Neill really dials up his assholedom to 11. This chapter focuses on ancient historian Flavius Josephus and two disputed passages in his writing, the Testimonium Flavianumand the “James Reference,” both which are claimed to be references to Jesus. O’Neill starts out by begging the question, baldly asserting “that Josephus does mention Jesus – twice.” However, theTestimonium is so blatantly a forgery no scholars today still dispute the fact; the only debate now is how much of it is forged. Even O’Neill accepts that at least some of it is not original to Josephus and was added by Christian scribes later. Of course, as Jeffrey Jay Lowder has pointed out, the very fact that there has been any tampering with the text at all makes the entire passage suspect.

But not to O’Neill. He cannot conceive that my filthy Myther comrades or I honestly dispute the two passages; instead he gleefully and repeatedly paints us as wringing our hands in anxiety, desperate to say anything or pull any underhanded tactic just to make the damning text go away so we can wallow in our lies. Charming.

O’Neill rightly notes that the majority of scholars accept the passage as at least partially authentic, but what he fails to add (if he even realizes) is that the “Partially Authentic,” or Reconstuctionist camp is the largest camp simply because scholarly opinion is so divided over the extent of tampering; it is a very large tent with lots of room for disagreement – and there is ferocious disagreement. And there are many scholars in that significant (and I think, correct) minority who are convinced it is a complete forgery.

O’Neill, repeating a dreadfully tired old line from the Christian apologists he despises, adds “once the more obvious interpolated phrases are removed, the passage reads precisely like what Josephus would be expected to write and also uses characteristic language found elsewhere in his works.” This would all be very convenient – just take out all the incriminating parts and then it all works fine! But there are several things he and the apologists get wrong here. To be begin with, there is no consensus on what is “obviously interpolated;” the permutations of what’s considered genuine and suspicious differs from theorist to theorist). Secondly, Josephan scholars Steve Mason and Ken Olson have both pointed out that the passage does not use Josephus’ characteristic language. In fact, its non-Josephan vocabulary and misuse of terms are just two of several other strong indications that the entire passage is not just a partial, but a total forgery. As I note in Nailed, (pp. 52-54) here are a few (not all) of the others:

“Still another is that it barely relates to the rest of the chapter. The following paragraph starts by saying “About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder.” Another sad calamity? But what sad calamity? Josephus has just presented a commercial for Jesus, not a sad calamity! This reference skips over the Testimonium entirely and points to the previous section. That passage, where Pilate sets his soldiers loose to massacre a large crowd of Jews in Jerusalem, certainly fits the bill as a sad calamity, but no versions of the Testimonium do, “reconstructed” or not.

Many commentators, including Doherty, G. A. Wells and Peter Kirby, have noted that without the Testimonium passage, the continuity between the passages flanking it flows seamlessly into each other. This fact alone is a tremendous indication that the passage is 100% entirely fraudulent.

Perhaps the major giveaway is that this passage does not appear until the 4th century. For the first 300 years of its existence, there is no mention of the Testimonium anywhere. This couldn’t have been simply because no one happened to read it; Josephus’ histories were immensely popular and pored over by scholars. For centuries his works were more widely read in Europe than any book other than the Bible. According to Josephus scholar Michael Hardwick in Josephus as an Historical Source in Patristic Literature through Eusebius, more than a dozen early Christian writers, including Justin Martyr, Theophilus Antiochenus, Melito of Sardis, Minucius Felix, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Julius Africanus, Pseudo-Justin, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, Methodius and Lactantius, are known to have read and commented on the works of Josephus.

Origen in particular relied extensively on him; his own writings are filled with references to Josephus. But it is obvious Origen had never heard of the Testimonium. When his skeptical Roman opponent Celsus asks what miracles Jesus performed, Origen answers that Jesus‘ life was indeed full of striking and miraculous events, “but from what other source can we can furnish an answer than from the Gospel narratives?” (ContraCelsum, 2:33) In the same book (1.47), Origen even quotes from Antiquities of the Jews in order to prove the historical existence of John the Baptist, then adds that Josephus didn’t believe in Jesus, and criticizes Josephus for failing to mention Jesus in that book!

And no one else seems to have heard of the Testimonium for 300 years, either – it is never quoted until the 4th century, when the notorious Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea begins quoting it repeatedly.”

And where did Eusebius get his copy of Antiquities of the Jews? From Origen - who had never heard of the passage!There’s simply no way around it: the Testimonium is 100% pure forgery, and it stretches belief that anyone but Eusebius is the forger.

But what about the Arabic Evidence?

O’Neill thinks he’s pulling out his trump card when he dredges up the Arab version of the Testimonium discovered by Israeli scholar Schlomo Pines, and the medieval Syriac Testimonium, which he claims preserve an original, uninterpolated Testimonium. He crows “So how does Fitzgerald deal with the Arabic and Syriac evidence?Well, he doesn’t. He is either ignorant of it or he conveniently ignores it.”

Well, he’s half right. I am quite aware of, and did indeed ignore the Arabic and Syriac “evidence” – just as I ignored the Slovanic Additions “evidence” in the Russian and Rumanian manuscripts. Why? Because despite sensationalistic claims like O’Neill’s, none of them add anything to the debate. Nor is he (or the sources he’s relying on) aware that several years ago historian Alice Whealey conclusively proved both these claims wrong.

But since we’re here, let’s go down this rabbit hole:

The Arabic version of the Testimonium is indeed a paraphrase, preserved in the world history of a tenth-century Arab Christian, Melkite Bishop Agapius of Hierapolis, whose history is pithily entitled Kitab Al-Unwan Al-Mukallal Bi-Fadail Al- Hikma Al-Mutawwaj Bi-Anwa Al-Falsafa Al-Manduh Bi-Haqaq Al-Marifa,or: The Book of History Guided by All the Virtues of Wisdom, Crowned with Various Philosophies and Blessed by the Truth of Knowledge.

O’Neill neglects to mention (or simply doesn’t know) that the late Prof. Pines himself cautioned against claiming that the Arabic text represents Josephus’ original version. Peter Kirby noted we can’t be sure Agapius was even quoting straight from a manuscript at all (he doesn’t even get the title of Josephus’ book correct, which suggests that he was working from memory, which would also explain any differences with the Greek version) And even if he was, it is certainly very late and corrupted, and thus practically worthless. What’s more, Pines freely acknowledged that there were several other explanations for the text; he personally believed that Agapius acquired his subject matter from texts in the care of – surprise! Eusebius, our prime suspect for forging the Testimonium in the first place! (see Gaalyahu Cornfield, The Historical Jesus: A Scholarly View of the Man and his World, Macmillan, 1982, p. 190) See where this is going…?

The medieval Syriac version of the Testimonium cited by Michael the Syrian in his World Chronicle traces back to some Syriac Christian; historians believe it is probably the seventh century James of Edessa. It reads differently from the Greek: Instead of “He was the Christ,” it reads “He was believed to be the Christ,” identical wording of a text of the Testimonium that Jerome possessed. The only plausible conclusion is that both had access to a Greek version of the Testimonium containing that variant. None of which prevented Eusebius from still being the original source for the Greek variant behind both Jerome’s late 4th century text (itself close to a century after the Testimonium first appears in Eusebius’ writings!) or the even later Syriac one.

So this was already the sorry state of evidence for both these writings before 2008, when Josephan scholar Alice Whealey made her rather conclusive case (see Alice Whealey, “The Testimonium Flavianum in Syriac and Arabic,” New Testament Studies 54.4 (2008) pp. 573-90) that even the once-much-touted Arabic version of the Testimonium actually also derives from… you guessed it – Eusebius, by way of an intermediary Syriac version, and so long story short, neither of these medieval Arabic or Syriac texts came from Josephus. Which is why I didn’t include any of this wild goose chase in Nailed. Which, if O’Neill really kept up with Josephan studies as much as he’d like us all to think, he should have known all along…

BTW, O’Neill also didn’t mention – sorry, I mean he is either ignorant of it or he conveniently ignores – the “evidence” of the so-called Slavonic Additions, but as long as we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, we might as well drag in the beefed-up, blatantly counterfeit, Old Russian Testimonium found in a few fifteenth-century Russian and Rumanian versions of The Jewish War – That’s right,The Jewish War, not Antiquities – the forger didn’t even put it in the right book! The prevailing view is that it was added in about the 10th or 11th century, and no historians today defend its authenticity.

Origen-al Sin

O’Neill turns on the charm again:

“Not content with ignoring inconvenient key counter-evidence, Fitzgerald is also happy to simply make things up. He talks about how the Second Century Christian apologist Origen does not mention the Antiquities XVII.3.4 reference to Jesus (which is true, but not surprising -Note from Dave: Really?) and then claims “Origen even quotes from Antiquities of the Jews in order to prove the historical existence of John the Baptist, then adds that Josephus didn’t believe in Jesus, and criticises him for failing to mention Jesus in that book!” (p. 53) Which might sound like a good argument to anyone who does not bother to check self-published author’s citations. But those who do will turn to Origen’s Contra Celsum I.4 and find the following:

Now this writer [Josephus], although not believing in Jesus as the Messiah, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people, since they put to death Christ, who was a prophet, says nevertheless-being, although against his will, not far from the truth-that these disasters happened to the Jews as a punishment for the death of James the Just, who was “the brother of that Jesus who was called Messiah”,–the Jews having put him to death, although he was a man most distinguished for his justice.

So Origen does not say Josephus “didn’t believe in Jesus”, just that he did not believe Jesus was the Messiah (which supports the Arabic and Syriac evidence on the pre-interpolation version ofAntiquities XVII.3.4) And far from criticising Josephus “for failing to mention Jesus in that book”, Origen actually quotes Josephus directly doing exactly that – the phrase “αδελφος Ιησου του λεγομενου Χριστου” (the brother of that Jesus who was called Messiah”) is word for word the phrase used by Josephus in his other mention of Jesus, found at Antiquities XX.9.1. And he does not refer to and quote Josephus mentioning Jesus just inContra Celsum I.4, but he also does so twice more: in Contra Celsum II:13 and in Commentarium in evangelium Matthaei X.17. It is hard to say if this nonsense claim of Fitzgerald’s is mere incompetence or simply a lie. I will be charitable and put it down to another of this amateur’s bungles.”

First, I must confess that I never meant to imply that Origen said Josephus “didn’t believe in Jesus” in the sense of Jesus not existing – I certainly don’t think that’s the case. That was an unfortunate and very poorly tempered sentence on my part; and painful as it is to give such a douche a bone, I have to say I totally agree with O’Neill’s criticism of it. Origen is chiding Josephus here for being a Jew, not for denying Jesus’ historicity. In fact, Josephus shows no sign of ever having even heard of Jesus at all, which is the reason Eusebius inserted his forged Testimonium into Antiquities in the first place.

But on every other point here, O’Neill is dead wrong – he (or more likely, whoever his unacknowledged source is) is in fact, demonstrating that the opposite is true. To begin with, how can O’Neill deny that Origen is not doing exactly what I said he did: criticizing Josephus for not mentioning Jesus? Read it again – it’s right there in black and white:

“… he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities…”

It should also be noted that the quotation marks in theContra Celsum passage above are not original to the text; in Origen’s time of course there was no such punctuation mark. They have been inserted there to give the impression that Origen is giving a direct quote here. But Origen is not quoting Josephus; not here and not in any of his other passages where O’Neill claims he does.

In fact, turnabout is fair play – let’s look at what these passages say. Here the first passage in question, Book 20, Chapter 9 of Antiquities of the Jews. Here, Josephus is describing the antics of a very unpopular high priest in Jerusalem, the unfortunately named Ananus ben Ananus. O’Neill claims Origen is quoting Josephus “word for word” here, and he is talking out of his ass. Origen does not even claim to be quoting Josephus here – and he isn’t. See for yourself:

“And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as

procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed

the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called

Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate

man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to

God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had

never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who,

as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his

temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are

very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already

observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had

now a proper opportunity (to exercise his authority).

Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the

sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was

called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, (or, some of his

companions); and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers

of the law, he delivered hem to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most

equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws,

they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king (Agrippa), desiring him to send

to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was

not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon

his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to

assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with

what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would

bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the

high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.”

As you can see, Josephus nowhere calls this James “James the Just,” nor blames the destruction of Jerusalem on his death, nor is he even talking about the destruction of Jerusalem here. Most importantly for our purposes here, neither, as O’Neill insists, does he use the phrase “(Iakôbou tou Dikaiou hos ên) adelphos Iêsou tou legomenou Christou” - “James the Just, who was a brother of that Jesus who was called Messiah.” The line in question is actually “ton adelphon Iêsou tou legomenou Christou Iakôbos onoma autôi”which means “the brother of Jesus (who was called Christ), the name for whom was James.” In fact, Josephus’ somewhat tortured syntax here is a clue, but let’s continue:

Further along in Contra Celsum (2:13) Origen uses the exact same line as before:

“Titus destroyed Jerusalem, on account, as Josephus wrote, of James the Just, the brother of Jesus who was called Christ, but in reality, as the truth makes clear, on account of Jesus Christ the Son of God.”

Origen claims Josephus wrote this, but not where – and again, he’s wrong; Josephus never wrote any such thing. And we get that exact same line in Origen’s third and final alleged Josephan quote, his commentary on the Gospel of Matthew:

“And to so great a reputation among the people for righteousness did this James rise, that Flavius Josephus, who wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in twenty books, when wishing to exhibit the cause why the people suffered such great misfortunes that even the temple was razed to the ground, said that these things happened to them in accordance with the wrath of God in consequence of the things which they had dared to do against James the brother of Jesus who is called Christ. And the amazing thing is that although he did not accept Jesus as Christ, he yet gave testimony that the righteousness of James was so great, and he says that the people thought that they had suffered these things because of James.”

So in short, in absolutely none of these cases is Origen quoting from Josephus.

In fact, as Richard Carrier has pointed out, the phrase found in Josephus has a peculiar and distinctive idiom (“the name for whom was James”) never found in Origen’s writings, so it’s even more apparent that Origen is not giving a direct quote in any of his writings. Incidentally, I am indebted to my friend Dr. Carrier for all the analysis of the Greek in this section of Nailed. For a thorough examination of the evidence that conclusively demonstrates the James Reference is an accidental interpolation or scribal emendation and that that passage was never originally about Jesus Christ but Jesus ben Damneus (The Jesus who is actually mentioned in the passage, and fits the context!), see his forthcoming paper “Origen, Eusebius, and the Accidental Interpolation in Josephus, Jewish Antiquities 20.200” in the Journal of Early Christian Studies 20.4 (coming Winter 2012)

James Reference, part II

At the risk of beating a dead horse, there’s still more in this small section that he has gotten horribly, horribly wrong. I know that O’Neill has an undue amount of ego invested in poo-pooing this book, but, please believe me when I tell you I’m honestly baffled that any reasonably bright, reasonably objective person can look at all the problematic features of the James Reference and still fail to find the solutions offered in this chapter thoroughly convincing. And it feels like in his withered little heart, O’Neill knows he’s in the wrong on this issue and is coming a bit unglued. Let’s watch.

“This second reference to Jesus is difficult for Mythers to deal with. Dismissing it as another interpolation does not work, since a Christian interpolator in a later century is hardly going to invent something as significant as the deposition of the High Priest just to slip in this passing reference to Jesus which, unlike the interpolated elements in theAntiquities XVII.3.4 passage, makes no Christian claims about Jesus.“

Hmmm… it can’t be a deliberate interpolation… why does all that sound familiar? Oh yes, it’s because that’s exactly what I say on p. 58! He piles on to this bad start, and that’s when it really getsfascinating – look what O’Neill does in this section: It’s a rhetorical hot mess: He flails away, his snarky rhetoric goes into high gear, substituting pissiness for facts with lines like: “But Fitzgerald falls back on one of the several gambits Mythers use to get their argument off this awkward and pointy hook;” or “While he declares this ingenious solution to his problem to be ‘the only explanation that makes sense,’ it is actually highly flawed,” or “The clumsy idea that Fitzgerald proposes is highly awkward in all respects.”

But when it’s time to back up all his smack talk with facts, his objections are piddling, goofy and random (“But this does not explain why Josephus would identify one son (James) by reference to his brother and the other (Jesus) by reference to their father”). Nor does he provide any evidence, only some truly ignorant statements like “This was in the mid-Third Century and long before Christians were in any position to be ‘tacking on’ anything to copies of Josephus.” He also puts on heavy-duty blinders, as when he declares:

“More importantly, neither Carrier nor Fitzgerald explain why an interpolator would “tack on” this reference to their Jesus.”

Except, of course, that we do explain, at length, for a considerable portion of this chapter (see pp. 59-60) that it is anaccidental interpolation; a fact that eludes O’Neill. In fact, he seems so completely clueless to the fact, you have to wonder was he still reading by this point at all, or just skimming? Or is he taking some“La-la-la I can’t hear you” approach and hoping no one would notice? He continues to ramble on autopilot, arguing to no one over the same non-existent point before declaring victory. Truly bizarre behavior, an almost Donald Trumpian level of masturbatory ego-trip.

He really needs to read the whole section again – he simply ignores the answers the book already provides to his own rhetorical questions. Besides that, his “objections” are ludicrous, and his “explanations” explain none of the problems of the passage: Why does Origen say elsewhere that there are no references to Jesus outside the gospel (see p. 53 of Nailed - already cited here in the section for Myth No. 3) if he thought Josephus mentioned him here (or in the Testimonium, for that matter)? Why does he – or any of the more than a dozen other early church fathers that relied heavily on Josephus for three hundred years (again, see p. 53 of Nailed) – never discuss this as a witness to Christ in all their citations of Josephus? Why do none of the details of the death of this James match the details we have from any other account of the death of James the Just?

And why didn’t Luke know of this account and include it in the New Testament book of Acts? Why would the Jews be in an uproar over the death of a Christian leader when Christians are supposed to be a hated, if not outright illegal, sect at this time? Why would he use the term “Christ” here – a term he studiously avoids using in reference to all other messianic figures he discusses in the rest of his writings? And why would he do so without explaining what it meant to his pagan Roman audience? The questions just go on and on. And O’Neill & Co. have no answer for any of them.

But all of these serious problems and more suddenly make perfect sense if the passage was originally really about Jesus, the son of Damneus – the Jesus who is actually being discussed in the passage – and the text was accidentally “corrected” to read “who was called Christ” instead. O’Neill and those who insist otherwise are left wrestling with a tremendous number of baffling unanswered questions instead.

O’Neill has once again inadvertently proved the opposite of what he set out to prove. In the immortal words of O’Neill: “it is hard to say if this nonsense claim is mere incompetence or simply a lie. I will be charitable and put it down to another of his bungles.”

And on a personal level, I have to say it’s frustrating when naysayers like O’Neill seem perfectly oblivious to the real reason these two obviously doctored passages in Josephus are defended so stridently by most biblical historians: because without this pair of long-disputed, deeply problematic snippets, there is literally nothing else in the entire first century to corroborate the Gospels. The force of their objection has always been based on theological imperatives, not evidential strength.
Myths 4 through 7: Phoning it in

After this confused rant, O’Neill runs out of steam, and can barely work enough negativity to dismiss the next four chapters as “mere padding” with, yes, yet another tiresome pronouncement that none of this applies to the real Jesus. Apparently, in that part of Australia called Tim O’Neill Land, the fact that the Gospels were not written by eyewitnesses, present wildly varying depictions of Jesus, are riddled with historical and archaeological errors, and that we have not a shred of physical evidence for Jesus, are of interest to “absolutely no-one except the most clueless of Biblical literalists or naive traditional Christians.” Don’t you feel bad for not being as smart as Tim O’Neill? You should.

He does work up enough steam for one more jab:

“Though there are some howlers in it that, yet again, shows that Fitzgerald is an amateur who really needed an informed editor. At one point he writes:

Matthew has Jesus making a pun where he tells Peter “upon this rock I will build my church” (Matt. 16:18). Though if this had happened in reality, Peter would have scratched his head and asked, “Say Jesus – what’s a church?” since churches hadn’t been invented yet, and wouldn’t be developed until many decades later. (p. 70)

The word translated as “church” in most English editions is κκλησίαν and it simply means “assembly, gathering, all of a given group”, so it would be very odd for Peter to have “scratched his head” at what would have been a perfectly sensible and clear statement. Personally, I do not happen to believe Jesus said this at all and it seems this was something put in his mouth later by the writer of Matthew. But the naivete of Fitzgerald’s English-based argument is indicative of his weak grasp of the material.”

“English-based argument?” Are you kidding me? The Historian in me is simply annoyed, but my inner Linguist is deeply offended. Once again, O’Neill misses the point because his pre-occupied knee-jerk snark reaction has him looking for mistakes that aren’t there. Of course I know the Greek for church is ekklêsía. But a statement like ”upon this rock I will build my ekklêsía” is most definitely not “a perfectly sensible and clear statement” for an early first century Jew. For them, ekklêsía weren’t something that was built upon; as he needlessly points out, the word simply meant a gathering, actually a “duly summoned assembly”. No one at the time would have understood it in the context given here by the much-later author of Matthew, which is why it’s in the section on anachronisms in the first place. Curb your dog already.

 

Myth No. 8: Paul’s Jesus

By Myth No. 8, O’Neill has given up and just falls back on the same tired old arguments that prompted me to write Nailed in the first place. He starts with the understatement that: “Paul does not actually say much about Jesus’ life and preaching.” In fact, it’s not just Paul – it’s the entire first generation of Christian writers. And it’s not that that he doesn’t say that much; he has nothing to say about his Risen Christ that seems to clearly refer to a life on earth, and again and again shows strange lapses about Jesus’ life, teachings, miracles, family, apostles, and the events of his ministry. Though he spends plenty of time in his letters having to remind his flock what he has taught them; he never bothers to tell them about what Jesus taught or did – or explain why he disagrees with the men who are supposedly Jesus’ family and disciples! Mythicists didn’t invent the “Silence of Paul” – that has puzzled and troubled biblical scholars for centuries.

Personally, I don’t know for certain if Paul himself believed in a purely spiritual Christ (along the lines of the savior in the originalAscension of Isaiah, who descends through successive layers of heavens by dying and rising again in each one) as Earl Doherty argues convincingly; or if Paul thought Jesus was on earth in some unspecified time in the past as a covert messiah, who “made of himself no reputation” (Phillip.2:7) and was unwittingly crucified by demons. But no matter how you slice it, it’s very obvious that Paul’s Christ is in stark contrast to the Jesus(es) in the Gospels – see pp. 129 -132 in Nailed for more details on those many differences.

And for a guy who keeps trying to nail me on linguistics points, O’Neill makes his share of blunders here, such as when he claims Paul states Jesus was executed by “earthly rulers” in 1 Cor. 2:8. In fact, the word used in that verse is not exsousia (εξουσια), the word the New Testament prefers to use when referring to earthly authorities like the Roman overlords or the temple leaders. It isarchôn (ἅρχων; plural, ἅρχοντες, archontes); the same word for “rulers, powers” that we see in verses like Ephesians 2:2:

“You once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience…”

As any Sunday School teacher can tell you, “The prince of the power of the air” (ton archonta tēs exousias tou aeros, τον αρχοντα της εξουσιας του αερος) is Satan himself, the ruler of this world. Archon also can have the mundane meaning of earthly authorities, but we don’t see that in New Testament contexts like here, or in Ephesians 3:10, where the closely related word archai is used to talk about “the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,” or here in Eph. 6:12:

“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

The word translated “rulers” here is actually kosmokratoras(κοσμοκράτορας), literally “cosmic rulers.” So it’s very clear that in Christian usage, Archon is not being used to describe earthly authorities. In fact, in his genuine writings, Paul never mentions that Pilate, or Herod, or the Jewish leaders, or the Romans, or anyone else on earth crucified Jesus – in fact Pilate never even appears in the epistles except for a single mention in the much later forged Pastoral epistle 1Timothy (6:13). According to Paul, and all of the other epistle writers who wrote before the Gospels were written, there is never a hint of Jesus being crucified by any human person or government; it is the Archai or Archons, that is, Satan and his minions, who crucified Jesus.

Likewise, though O’Neill insists Paul says Jesus “ had a earthly, physical brother called James who Paul himself had met,” “an earthly, physical brother” is exactly what Paul does not say about James or any of the others referred to in the New Testament as the “Brothers of the Lord” (such as the 500 Brethren in 1 Cor. 15: 6); see pp. 144-145 in Nailed for further discussion, including the absence of any “consistent tradition” of James being Jesus’ brother – or anyone else being Jesus’ disciples (see Myth No. 9 for details).

And it’s ironic that O’Neill picked I Cor. 15:3-4; since in these verses, he tells us how he “knows” his Christ died and was buried, and it is for the same reason given in so many other places in Paul’s writings (and other Epistles) – because it was prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures:

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

O’Neill takes exception to me noting that Paul disdainfully dismisses James as though he was a nobody in Galatians 2:6. In fact it’s not just at 2:6; Paul is dismissive of all the leaders of the Jerusalem church, and has nothing to say at all about them being disciples or kin to Jesus. He even accuses them of trucking with false believers! Don’t take my word for it – read Galatians 2 for yourself:

1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus withme.2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4And this occurred because of false brethrensecretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to meGod shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcisedwas to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.

And the very next thing, he’s opposing both Peter and James for not following the gospel – again, with not a single so much as a hint that they had any kind of relationship to Jesus!

11Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

(and their clash continues for the rest of the chapter…)

Conclusion:

O’Neill gives up long before the end of the book; not that I can see how he could find anything to argue against there, but I could be wrong about that… But before he pulls his most weakest, most chicken-shit maneuver of all – telling critics not to bother posting on his comment thread – O’Neill ends his screed predictably enough, with one final rant at “Mythers.” Mythers begin with their conclusion, they desperately want the Christ Myth to be true because they want to undermine Christianity, this book is weak, clumsy, confused, amateurish and represents everything that is hopelessly wrong about the “Myther thesis,” etc. etc.

So it seems that I will have to find a way to live without Tim O’Neill’s approval… which he seems to reserve to himself anyway. I’ll leave it up to the rest of you, Nailed’s readership, to be the final judge.

But I do take issue with his assertion that “the overwhelming majority of scholars, Christian, non-Christian, atheist, agnostic or Jewish, accept there was a Jewish preacher as the point of origin for the Jesus story simply because that makes the most sense of all the evidence.” In fact, it does not make the most sense of the evidence, which I defend in the essay “Will the Real Jesus Please Stand Up?”and in my forthcoming book, Jesus: Mything in Action, coming in 2012.

See David’s blog here: http://davefitzgerald.blogspot.com

  • ER

    Let us examine the historicity of someone being dead, and coming back to life, only to have his physical body ascend to heaven, removing the evidence. Ok

  • Adam

    It's only through knowledge and discourse that we can fight the God Virus. Think of this as one form of treatment being made more and more available at the Atheist Pharmacy. Over the counter. No prescription needed. People just have to ask for it. You'd surprised how many "on the fence atheists" there are who need stuff like this to help them let go of their delusion. That's all we are trying to do.

    For the rest of us, you're right… the simple lunacy of the story is enough to debunk it.

  • Enzo

    If you believe the whole Christian nonsense, you are mentally ill and need to seek professional help.

    • Antony

      Wow, how do you get anywhere with that? Professional help? A third of the world is not mentally ill. They may be wrong, but you'll never convince anyone of that if you just sound crazy yourself.

  • Dave

    >> Let us examine the historicity of someone being dead, and coming back to life, only to have his physical body ascend to heaven, removing the evidence. Ok

    We know Caesar existed without having Caesar's actual body. What is it about religion that makes people so irrational and pedantic?

    • EvolutionKills

      We have multiple contemporary attestation of Julius Caesar, and his many deeds. His fellow Romans wrote about him, his enemies wrote about him. He had his visage used on coins, statues, and other works of art that remain to this day. We have Caesar’s own writings, his ‘The Civil Wars’ is still considered a classic of Latin literature.

      We have none of this for Jesus, when we would expect all of this and more for someone as ‘well known’ and as ground-breaking influential as Jesus is claimed to be in the Gospels.

      • MikeofAges

        Caesar was the greatest man of his age. Jesus of Nazareth was an traveling preacher who was active only for a short period of time. Why would there have a voluminous contemporary record? Or any record whatsoever? Jesus of Nazareth became as important as Caesar only later. He was the one of many who rose from the rubble to become a seminal figure in world history. But only due to the actions of his followers, long after his own lifetime. Get over it. There was an historical Jesus. That means there was a man, Jesus of Nazareth, who preached in manner described in the Gospels. Whether the rest of story is sound or accurate is factually unknown, but it obviously contains many elements which are inconsistent with the known experience of living person. And others that are.

        The historical existence of the person, Jesus of Nazareth, has nothing to do with atheism. He was a preacher. There are preachers today, and atheists do not feel forced by their existence to adopt religious faith.

        • EvolutionKills

          You’re argument makes as much sense as using the success of Mormonism to substantiate the existence of the Golden Plates.

          An actual Jesus/Golden Plates was not required for Christianity/Mormonism to be a success, only a belief in Jesus/Golden Plates was required; they never actually had to have existed.

  • TYPO

    preceded Christianity. And once you

    begins

    to parse out the origins of this tradition or that teaching from their various

  • commodianus

    Life of Claudius 25.4

    I find it amusing that Caeser crossing the Rubicon is "more authoritatively known" that the historical Jesus Christ on account of Suetonius' mention given the above citation.

  • Mark

    what a hilarious uninformed joke. Anyone who takes half an hour to study the subject will find that Jesus absolutely existed. You can debate some of what His works (unsuccessfully), but He DEFINITELY existed. No question at all. The same old jokes told over and over and printed like its new. ha!

  • Michael

    I'm no friend of Christianity, but this argument is totally incoherent. I read the whole thing expecting the author to eventually say something other than "historical details of Jesus's existence are vague and contradictory, therefore Jesus did not exist." That's a lousy argument that could be extended to any number of very real historical figures.

    I think what irks me the most is that the author apparently thinks he is advancing new and interesting opinions.

    • OGRastamon

      The argument is not as you present it at all. It is “The evidences for Jesus’ existence are uncorroborated, counterfeited, plagiarized, biased, contradictory writings from anonymous impostors with a clear agenda to convince the reader that the superhuman spawn of an omniscient deity did exist a long time ago before any of us were born THEREFORE there is no reason to believe that Jesus existed and you’re just being a dick to suggest otherwise”.

  • Steven Mading

    Micheal – you make the mistake of thinking he's talking about the Jesus that historians talk about. He's talking about the Jesus described in the Bible. THAT Jesus didn't exist. It was a massive exaggeration based very loosely on a Jesus that actually did exist, but a fictional character based upon a real character is not the same thing as the real character. I really despise the way historians use the phrase "historical jesus" to refer to the guy who actually existed upon whom the New testament is extremely loosely based. They're just feeding fodder to the dishonest apologists (who will assume they're talking about a guy who walked on water, came back from the dead, and so on) by doing that. They need to be more direct about the fact that the guy they're talking about is nothing like the guy everyone else thinks of when they hear "Jesus", and that their discovery of the real life character that was the inspiration for the bullshit mythical figure in the bible in no way proves the bible is telling you about stuff that really happened. The historians knew perfectly well the damage that would be caused by not being more clear about that, but in the interest of appeasing religion they didn't bother making the distinction.

    • Antony

      Actually, he clearly says there wasn't even a historical Jesus in the first two paragraphs. Just thought you should know:

      "And once you begins to parse out the origins of this tradition or that teaching from their various sources, the sweater begins unraveling quickly until it becomes very difficult to buy that there ever was – or even could have been – any historical figure at the center."

    • Genesis McKenzie

      The foundation of Christianity is a merely a Euhemerization Movement, like all other euhemerization movements of its day and before it:

      You keep peeling away at even the so-called “historical” Jesus, and at once you are left with the undeniable fact that he never existed as one person, but a he is a mere euhemerization of Judaic aspirations, desires, myths, and Hebrew fairy-tales because they wanted their land to be “Saved” or “Rescued” from the Romans. Indeed, this a a second Joshua, who also never existed historically, since, after all, no Joshua ever conquered Jericho, Hazori nor Lachish from the outside.

  • JAFisher44

    Mark, Michael: Can you not read? The article explains very clearly why it is reasonable to question the idea that Jesus ever existed, even a mundane Jesus. The article is not incoherent. It is rather concise.

    Mark, you are just making an assertion. How do you know that Jesus DEFINITELY existed? If you have evidence bring it forward. Saying something all in caps doesn't make it true.

    Michael, the article never says that Jesus never existed, just that the evidence of his existence is very weak. So weak, in fact, that it is reasonable to doubt its veracity.

    Steven: This article is talking about the "historical Jesus." Read the closing statement of the excerpt, "And it’s important to note that we are not just talking about the divine man-god Jesus coming under fire, because it is not just the supernatural aspects of Jesus that have come under suspicion. Even the mundane and perfectly plausible-sounding aspects of Jesus’ life have proved to be problematic…"

  • gwen

    Hey!! I KNOW him! I didn't know he'd written/released a book! Just wait until I see him after he gets back from Skepticon! I want to see it released as an ebook too!!

  • Jehun Bak

    I guess in 2000 years' time, people will start writing ridiculous articles like "1000 myths about Kim Il-sung that prove that he never existed". They will cite the fact that most of the biographies written about him were wildly exaggerated. The fact that assumptions are made or myths exist, doesn't mean that the person in question didn't exist.

    The article says "but neither Luke nor any of the others ever cite any other sources"; and this is downright false for anyone with any familiarity at all with the gospel. One of Luke's "sources" is the Theophilus, the one to whom the work …is addressed. And he says, you and hundreds of others have witnessed these events with your own eyes. By the way, the book of Luke was not his only work, as the author, again, ignorantly asserts. Luke also wrote the book of Acts of the Apostles. The fact that Luke wrote his narratives to a hostile audience should lend it a great measure of credibility, as one would check one's facts before writing to an audience that would have an interest in stamping out your new 'cult'.

    Oddly enough, one of the best pieces of evidence for the fact that Jesus was an actual person are the writings of one of Jesus' main detractors: a rabbi who never denied his existence, but merely claimed that he was a bastard of a Roman soldier named Pantera: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu#Yeshu_ben_Pand…. This was of course said to discredit the belief that Jesus was born of a virgin. He could have just simply said that Joseph impregnated her, but that wouldn't have conflicted too heavily with the Gospel narrative, because Joseph, being a righteous man, sought to divorce her quietly when learning that his betrothed had become pregnant, until the angel appeared to him.

    This atheist isn't a very good historian. What does he think of the Talmudic accounts of "Yeshu"? Are they myths as well?

  • John Trent

    @Steve:

    this is what you wrote:

    "He’s talking about the Jesus described in the Bible. THAT Jesus didn’t exist. It was a massive exaggeration based very loosely on a Jesus that actually did exist, but a fictional character based upon a real character is not the same thing as the real character."

    No, he is not talking about the Jesus described in the Bible. He is talking about the assumption that there was actually a person upon which what he claims are myths were based:

    "but at any rate, surely there had to be somebody at the original core of Christianity, arguably the most famous individual in human history. All this seems to be a perfectly reasonable, completely natural assumption to make – so why would anyone be so foolish as to propose that Jesus never existed?

    Doesn’t it just make more sense to assume that there was a historical Jesus, even if we are unable to recover the real facts about his life and death? As it turns out, no."

    It seems you are the one lacking reading skill.

  • JAFisher44

    Jehun Bak: Its more like people in 1000 years writing articles like "1000 things about Harry Potter that prove he never existed."

    In fact your false analogy is even more flawed than you can imagine. For one the technology available now for recording the existence of a person is far superior to that of 2000 years ago. There are probably thousands of books that record the existence of Kim Il-sung, hundreds of hours of video footage, etc.

    However, the author of this article isn't even holding Jesus to that standard. Only to the standard required of other historical "facts" from the same time that Jesus supposedly roamed the earth.

  • Adam

    Let me make this very clear for everyone… David Fitgerald, the author was only summarizing some findings here. He is an incredible historian and his book has pages of bibliographical references for all of his claims. THERE WAS NO JESUS (as we know him)! We will post more from his book soon as well as his multi-media presentation, "The 10,000 Christs" which explains all of this extremely well.

    • Supreme Cosmic Power Center

      The BEAUTIFUL Truth is that some of the teachings of the Biblical Jesus is valid. However, the ugly and irritating Truth is there was no historical Jesus Christ!

      The New Testament was created by Hellenistic Jews of Egypt, and it was probably used to encode and preserve Egyptian religious teachings, as it seems that Jesus Christ was modeled after Horus, the son of Osiris and Isis, (the ancient astronaut demi-gods of Egypt, the Anunnakis.)

      The father of Isis and Osiris was Marduk, the son of Enki, (the Anunnaki God of Wisdom who created modern human beings through genetic engineering and gene splicing, 500,000 yrs ago.)

      Zachariah Sitchin has written extensively about the Anunnakis in his books which we highly recommend.

      All the ancient pantheons of Gods of Egypt, India, Sumeria, Babylon, Assyria, Greece, Rome, North and South America was the same Anunnakis, who were given different names in different parts of the world.

      Just because Jesus Christ was not a historical figure doesn’t necessarily inavlidate some of the New testament teachings because the ancient scribes and writers frequently and liberally copied from each other with some embellishments here and there.

      The old Testament is simply a disguised Egyptian religion which the ancient Jewish rabbi’s used to preserve all the secret ancient Egyptian and Babylonian religious teachings.

      They simplied recast events that happened in Egypt to Israel and walla, it became Judaism.

      It is good they were kind enough to include the fact that the ancient Jews/Israelites (sons and descendants of Jacob, son of Isaac, who was renamed Israel, meaning, “he who had wrestled with God,” a blasphemy!) lived in Egypt and Babylon and that Moses was an Egyptian/Sudanese or whatever (or as one researcher has claimed, an Egyptian Pharoah!)

  • http://www.administrative-assistant-guide.com administrative assis

    It’s really a nice and helpful piece of information. I’m glad that you shared this helpful info with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thanks for sharing.

  • http://www.autismsymptomsblog.com autism symptoms

    Beneficial info and excellent design you got here! I want to thank you for sharing your ideas and putting the time into the stuff you publish! Great work!

  • Adam

    But of all the copies we have, almost none speak of Jesus. They talk about all kinds of minute details of life. They talk about events, criminals, leaders, etc… but NOT JESUS. Why is that? Did they write about him and everyone copying them since decided to leave his stories out except a few religious zealots. Josephus's writings are first but have since been show to be forgeries. So, we have NO first century author that talks about this man that walked the land performing miracles, healing the sick, and raising people from the dead… I'd think that would have maybe made the news of the day, don't you?

  • Adam

    But, we do know Julius Caesar existed because we have load of artifacts from that era that relate to him specifically as well as volumes of his writings (copies or not) and writings from tons of other people from all over the empire discussing him and his feats that all match each other. This mountain of consistent work makes the evidence for Jesus in ancient literature look like a footnote (with errors in agreement). Other than the bible, there are scarce mentions of the actual Jesus of Nazareth that billions have based their faith on, and even many of those are questionable. There is no motive to "invent" Caesar… there is motive to invent the son of god. No Messiah, no sacrifice… no religion. Big motive – HUGE motive for false stories.

  • Adam

    One skinhead moron outside a Borders isn't representative of atheists as a whole – we can't choose who doesn't believe in god. Of course, if he is a Holocaust denier, Jew hater, and a "supremacist" of any kind, he is an idiot and discredit to humanity.

    • Rick

      Sounds like a well informed individual. In fact his only flaw would be a “skinhead” (if true, your claim)as I’m not for any kind of racial supremacy. The supremacists need to wake up and realize there is jews and non-jews. That’s it. Quit fighting amongst ourselves and keep the heat where it belongs which is solely on the jews.

      I’m surprised more atheists (which I am myself) can’t see the jews for what they are and that yes, the Holocaust is a hoax. I’m not saying there wasn’t camps but there was no systematic extermination of jews. Let alone 6 million of them. Do people even realize how long it would take to “gas” six million people in the so called “gas chambers” that were at these camps? A lot longer than those camps even existed.

      • Adam

        Wow, learn history. As an atheist and a (hopefully) skeptic, you should know better. The holocaust clearly happened. The mass graves and photos AND THE CAMPS show it did. I’ve met people that were in these camps. I’ve heard their stories. It’s completely real.

        And, by the way… if they killed 20,000 people a day (low estimate) it would take 300 days to kill 6,000,000. Hitler had 6 extermination camps, 17 other major camps, and about 1,500 satellite camps between 1941 and 1944… plenty of time and ability to kill 6,000,000 Jews.

        Please get your facts straight before making such outlandish claims.

      • http://www.eriklaurikulo.se/ Erik Lauri Kulo

        In the ethnic cleansing in Rwanda, they were able to kill around 800,000 to 1,000,000 people with mostly machetes at a higher rate than the holocaust. So along with that and what Adam wrote, you’re pretty much dead-wrong with that tiresome argument.

  • Adam

    The "artifacts" that David writes about have been checked out and peer reviewed by many scientists. However, several of the artifacts that have come up in the last 30 years to "prove" stories of the bible (ie. Noah's Ark and Solomon's temple) have indeed been show by experts (even the Jewish Antiquities Council – one of the leading authorities in the world) to be fakes. So, as of today, there is NO archaeological evidence for either of those stories – kind of big ones, don't you think?

    There is no evidence that Julius Caesar was invented. The Romans didn't have to make claims to land they already occupied. The writings about him have been corroborated by authors across the empire that never met each other and never had ways to copy each other's stories… unlike the bible.

  • Adam

    @ Morrison: My point on the relics in Jerusalem is valid. The Jewish Antiquities Council would WANT TO prove these artifacts as real… it validates their faith. So, if anything, they would be biased to lie in favor of their authenticity. They didn't. They proved them to be forgeries. Some of the same people and methods are employed on items that support our claim of Jesus NOT existing.

    The relatively few documents supporting the claim for Jesus are riddled with discrepancies, forgeries, and retractions. We have early pieces for instance that don't say anything about Jesus and later copies of the "same work" that do. Why is that?

    The Romans produced lots of writings that can be shown real from various identical copies from around the empire as well as tons of artifacts to validate their authenticity. Guess what they didn't write about? Yep, Jesus.

    Not a double standard… two different scenarios altogether.

  • Adam

    @ Morrison: I added a big list of people that support David's premise. Historians aren't sure the shaky evidence for the historicity of Jesus really holds up anymore… except for Christians, but it doesn't take much for believers to keep believing – just tons to make them stop believing.

  • Anon

    I strongly suggest to use the list (and the contents of the article) to adapt the specific Wikipedia pages to be more scientific. The pages as they are now show a clear Christian bias.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_christ

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mythology

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ_and_com…

    I would like to specifically point to this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_christ#Histori…

    "The principal sources of information regarding Jesus' life and teachings are the four gospels. Scholars conclude the authors of the gospels wrote a few decades after Jesus' crucifixion (between 60-100AD), in some cases using sources (the author of Luke-Acts references this explicitly). A great majority of biblical scholars accept the historical existence of Jesus.[137][138][139][140][141]"

    Their "quotation-overload" is an appeal to authority.

    Your listing proves that the "great majority" bit can be changed, and you could overload their quotations with yours.

    Someone?

  • Patty

    Loved the book. Highly recommend it!

  • Greg

    Even as a Christian, I would be surprised and highly suspicious of any supposed artifact or documentation arising from early Christianity. In its earliest days it was a small cult within Judaism. Jesus from the perspective of Roman record keepers was just another peasant preacher who was being executed for heresy, not a common occurrence but not unheard of. Few records from that era survive and the chances of them being from the proper execution of someone who was not important until a later era. Legend even tells us that he was executed along side two common thieves, outside his then small following the execution was not a big event.

    I would also submit that even if the figure had a significantly different personal history than has been passed down to us a person or perhaps a few persons must have existed. If for no other reason even if the whole person was made up(which seems far more complicated than the theory that a man's or a few men's stories were embellished over the generations) the original author would be the historical person representing Jesus, in that Christianity was based on his teachings.

  • Andy

    Jesus existed. End of.

    • Genesis McKenzie

      Anything that you can assert without evidence can also be fairly dismissed without evidence. Thus, Jesus never existed. End of argument. :P

  • Andy

    And I know this because I have had an experience that I believe can only be one of knowing that God loves me, that his son Jesus did for me and that one day I'll be in his presence forever. (one that many people on here would say means I'm mentally ill – really? try telling that to my employers, my family, my wife, my friends…..sorry but those people who would say such stupid things are wrong)

    The question is this….if I'm wrong and there is no God, no Jesus, no resurection, and no eternal life…what have I lost…nothing beyond the friendship of a few people who don't want others to have freedom of choice….If I'm right then what have those who don't believe in Jesus lost?

    • EvolutionKills

      People have had personal experiences of being abducted by aliens, seeing bigfoot, flying pink elephants, and experiencing the presence of Buddha or Allah or any number of other gods. I don’t suppose you find their personal accounts convincing, do you?

      When an individual suffers from a delusion, he is labeled as crazy or eccentric. But when a delusion is passed from generation to generation, taught to uncritical children before the age of reason, and reinforced every week as divine truth? Then we call it religion.

  • Kaylie

    Okay, I'm sick of people trying to search for crap about how Jesus never excisted. Well yall can say that all you want because he IS alive, no doubt in my mind and he is living in my life and he died for me and he loves me for who I am. He loves yall just as much, he just doesn't appreciate how immature yall are. God gives me peace that passes all understanding. It says in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." People there is a such thing as hell, and if you don't get your act together, sorry to break it to you, but you're going there. God loves yall so much!

    Thanks,

    Kaylie.

    • EvolutionKills

      Yeah, because searching for truth and evidence to support our assertions is real ‘immature’. But having blind faith in the majority opinion with no critical thought of your own is noble?

      Sorry, keep your Kool-Aid to yourself….

    • ChildPleaz

      God loves me so much that he will send me to torture for infinity if I don’t worship him? What a a$$hole God is! So vain!

  • Jasper

    @Adam

    You do know it was the Jews that basically killed Jesus, not the Romans, right? I hardly think they'd invent a story about someone who radically challenged their faith, law and culture, someone they persecuted constantly. Do you know what Judaism (or even any other religion) consists of or do you just spend your life chasing down Christianity?

    Jews believe that, wait for it… the saviour prophesied in their scripture has not come yet! So for what reason would they invent one? It doesn't add to their religion.

    Personally, I find the narrow-minded persecution of Christianity a greater evidence of its truth than the supposed arguments that atheists throw out. As Adam commented above 'it doesn’t take much for believers to keep believing – just tons to make them stop believing', yeah, hmmm, I wonder why that is? Possibly because it is a genuine belief and relationship with a God who promises to never let go…?

    Besides if you believe it's not worth the trouble, why bother persecuting it in the first place? Christianity differs from other religions in so many ways and this, apparently is what insults most: that Jesus claims to be 'THE way and the truth and the life'.

  • Simon

    Ok, so can I respectfully ask why you think hundreds of people who claimed to have known Jesus were prepared to be martyred for something which, according to you, they completely made up?

    Your claim that "the only thing necessary to explain the rise of Christianity is a belief" indeed seems to be true but actually says nothing whatsoever because you haven't answered the question of where that belief begins. In my opinion you still need to account for the question of why so many people believed this point so fervently that they were prepared to die for it.

    Let's compare the accounts of Jesus' life to Caesar again. We can, today, place our hands on 10 early copies of Caesar's writings- the earliest of which is 1000 years after it was originally written. Now, I don't deny that this is Caesar's writing or that it is reliable however can you imagine your own reaction if Christianity had 10 copies of copies of copies of copies which claimed to be have written by Jesus. I would suggest that atheist apologetics wouldn't even consider it to be historically reliable or worthy of note and no doubt it would be claimed that the authorship was fraudulent.

    In contrast we can put our hands on manuscripts of the gospels and other NT writings from c.90 years of the resurrection and we have 5600 copies rather than the 10 we have for Caesar.

    It simply isn't true that only Luke claims to be writing literal truth: John(writing about himself in the 3rd person as he does throughout his gospel) says "This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true" (21:24). Matthew begins by setting up a firm historical framework in Jesus' genealogy. Mark, admittedly, makes no explicit claims for himself.

    Most critically however is that the gospels were not the first parts of the NT to be written chronologically and that all of Paul's letters probably pre date them. So in 1 Corinthians 15 we see Paul making the statement "if Christ has not been raised then our preaching is in vain and our hope is in vain…But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead"(v.14,20). This was written about 20 years after Jesus' death and resurrection and makes the explicit claim that this really happened.

    Think about it and ask yourself what would you expect to see if the biblical accounts are true? Jesus didn't come to be with the rich and powerful or the greatest scholars of the time- not surprising that his followers didn't write 'scholarly' histories of his life. Historians at that time wrote only about kings and political leaders as is well attested and so it is not surprising that we have fewer references to Jesus than if it occurred today. If Christianity is true, would we not expect to see what, in fact, we do see- a series of documents which back up what the others say and attest to the life altering message of the resurrection which meant they were prepared to die for what they believed on the basis of what they saw?

    • califate

      1. The martyrs didn’t exist either. Romans were very tolerant of religion. The supposed martyrs were complete fabrications by early church fathers to buffer their claims, and there are no records to back up their claims of persecution and martyrdom. The only period of persecution of Christians was the first decade of the fourth century. It was mild. It did not involve executions but public commitments and property confiscations. The Christians, on the other hand, were barbarians who notoriously murdered each other ruthlessly and unceasingly in their religious rivalry.
      2. But we don’t have 10 writings from Jesus. We don’t have any writings from Jesus. So your point is moot.

  • Apologist

    "Their actual identities are completely unknown, and all overtly declare their bias towards persuading new converts."

    You're not going to find many people who can vouch for the truth of the resurrection and yet at the same time not be moved to try to convince others that it happened. Isn't it obvious that those who vouch for the resurrection will also be beleivers themselves? Who would in their right mind be convinced by the resurrection but then still disbelieve. If you insist on labeling all believers as "bias" wittnesses, you will never find your so called "unbias" witness.

  • Tim ONeill

    I imagine Professor Paula Frederiksen and several others listed above would be mighty surprised to learn that they agree with Fitzgerald's premise. Fitzgerald is not "an amazing historian" and his book is the work of a clumsy amateur. I have written a long, detailed critique from an atheist perspective here:
    http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2011/05/nailed…

    Some people need to get past what they'd like to believe and be a bit more sceptical and analytically critical.

    • Adam

      We have posted David’s long refutation to your critique of hie work. I think you’ll find it as sufficient as our readers. You may still disagree with him.. but he offered a clear rebuttal to your arguments. Sorry… we still side with David on this one.

      • http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/ Tim O’Neill

        “he offered a clear rebuttal to your arguments”

        No, actually he didn’t. I’ll be posting a response to his reply. Will you post that as well?

  • Antony

    the fact of the matter is, we can't 100% trust anything that didn't happen before man's ability to record sound. Everything is one person's take on one event, that may or may not have happened. If two people who "don't" travel in similar circles write the same thing happening, we can assume that wasn't orchestrated, but there's no hard evidence.

  • ravi

    bible is wrong. it is not true. jesus is fiction

  • Robert

    A deeper study reveals that a historical Jesus did not exist at all. Sure there were like 20 Jesus’ alive in Israel and surrounding areas at that time…it was a common name. However, we now know that Nazareth was not a real town in the times claimed in the Bible. The really obvious thing is that there is not a shred of historical evidence for Jesus. None. There is no contemporaneous attestation from any historians and particularly Philo of Alexandria. Philo impeccably documented all the history in that era and place and does not even mention Jesus once. The Romans records of Pilate and Herod do not mention Jesus either. When one understands symbolism and understands archetypes and how the same god-man myths keep repeating themselves as they are assimilated by other cultures. This is called syncretism. Mithra also was a “god” and preceded Christianity. Mithra, like Jesus was born of a virgin on Dec 25th. Mithra died and was resurrected also. There are some 12-15 other “gods” and “god-men” who have similar life stories to the Jesus in the gospels, same details, same sayings, same everything. It becomes obvious that Jesus is a myth and Christianity is a syncretism of Jewish religion, Greek thought, and the Pagan mystery religions of the Middle East and Egypt. The story of the flight of the hero’s family into a desert is also a repeat line from an earlier myth. The important thing to understand is that to interpret the bible literally is psycho-spiritually dangerous as the bible advocates the killing of first born babies, the slaughter of Isaac’s son, and many other instances where bible “g-d” orders killings or brutality.. That is not Real God. The bible is also corrupted with lies by the Catholic Church, who built the Vatican over the old Mythric temples.

  • Scott Koppel

    It is surprising to hear people say that there is no historical evidence for Jesus. What is your definition for historical evidence? When a person says that he or she saw it and two or three others say the same thing, it is considered enough in our own court system. How then is it not enough in a social system? Why do the laws of evidence change because you “claim” to find “apparent” inconsistencies? Are you persuaded by evidence, or are you persuaded by complimentary evidence because it “validates” your previously held beliefs?

    • EvolutionKills

      Wow, can you project any harder?

    • Genesis McKenzie

      Richard Carrier did a lecture on why Jesus never existed. His work is also peer-reviewed. Read Richard Carrier’s book:
      (1) Proving History: Bayes’s Theorem and the Quest for the historical Jesus.
      (2) Truth-Saves.com is also a great website
      (3) JesusNeverExisted.com

  • Pingback: Getting Started: Did Jesus of Nazareth really exist? « hrodbert696

  • Coconut Man

    Dear god this is so full of shit. FYI it was the fucking JEWS not the ROMANS. What you’re basically telling us is like you have to see AIR just to know it’s there.

    • Genesis McKenzie

      You have five senses. You can feel wind, you can breathe in oxygen. You can mathematically prove that the Higgs Boson is there without seeing it. You can calculate how deep you need to dig into the ground to find a mine shaft that is 300 feet from you on the surface of the ground at a 20 degree angle. you can measure how tall a building is without using a large ruler. You can calculate how big the universe is, how old it is, and how old this planet is. You can learn about the diet of ancient civilizations 12,000 years ago, but there is just no historical evidence that the Euhemerized Second Joshua (called Jesus in American English New Testaments) ever existed.

  • Easye13

    Good god! I just read this silly shit and feel like taking a shit. One as a history expery, yes thete are a few records that romans kept of jesus ,and not every one writes about themselves. Man if anyone belives you fucking lies then there is no hope for the world.

  • Pingback: کَنکاشی بَر مَسیحیت؛ بَخش دوم: “افسانه موهوم عیسی مسیح” | فضول محله

  • 18235

    batman wept.