The bible has never been proven wrong, eh?

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I get several invitations from religious people to go somewhere secluded and talk about god.  Years ago I learned that this was generally not a good idea because the lack of an audience allowed the theist to sit there and drone ‘nuh uh’ over and over again without losing face.  So when I receive such requests now, I always insist that our conversation be filmed and that I post it unedited to my blog.  This is generally enough to dissuade even Jehovah’s witnesses and I recommend it to everybody.  It’s amazing how their tactics change when accountability is introduced.

Anyway, during my last week in Springfield I was feeling generous and elected to indulge an MSU student who wanted to meet up and talk god (I didn’t demand video on this occasion).  The argument to which she kept falling back was, “The bible has never been proven wrong about anything.”  It occurs to me that she’s probably not the only person using this argument, so I guess I should blog about it.

The bible has been proven wrong about a great number of things, not the least of which is its central idea: that a man rose from the dead.  We know this is impossible.  The bible makes a magnificent glory about such an event’s impossibility: otherwise, why would god be required?  The problem is that there’s no evidence that it occurred.  The same can be said for walking on water, living in the belly of a fish, staffs turning into snakes, people turning into pillars of salt, etc.  This is not even mentioning ‘prophecies‘ like the city of Tyre never being rebuilt (Ezekiel 26:14…Tyre is still around to this day) or a global flood (which was completely missed in the historical records of civilizations like Egypt’s Sixth Dynasty, which should have been destroyed.  What a hearty bunch they must have been…).

Of course, this doesn’t matter to the believer because they can just say that god suspended the consistency of the universe to allow things that ordinary humans like us would consider to be proven false.  The problem is that there is no event so ludicrous, so wildly unbelievable, that it could not be defended by such an argument.  Even Christians realize that faith traps Muslims, Hindus, and followers of every other faith within grievous errors (errors that could be quite costly in terms of eternity), and makes those errors immune to assault by the world of evidence.  Yet in the hands of Christians faith is not the means to maintain erroneous beliefs (as it is everywhere else), but a way to grasp the deepest conceivable truth, even as the evidence around them contradicts it.  In this way, they can think that we’ve not proven that people do not rise from the dead.

This is the problem with faith: it destroys our reason by removing all our standard checks for proof and accountability.  This unmakes our ability to converse fairly and, in doing so, destroys our connection to one another.  This is the faith they tell us is necessary to redeem humankind.

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  • http://dj_ginsu.xanga.com dj_ginsu

    You skipped a few easy ones. Like – the 10 plagues of Egypt. There is no record in any Egyptian document of any catastrophic plague – let alone 10 in succession, the last of which (passover) would have wiped out most of the Egyptian economy. Yet all historic records appear as if nothing of the sort happened – not even an increase in the price of cattle, or a poem about a dead son. Secondly, most of Genesis has been proven scientifically impossible. Earth before light. 6 day creation period. Age of earth. Like the flood story, most of the bible is just folklore and mythology taken entirely too seriously.

    • Truth

      Actually there is record of that. The great prophet magi, musa. Sounds strikingly familiar, eh? In one corner of Egypt there is record of a man who performed great miracles after which anthropologists describe was a great exodus of people. Hmmmm coincidence of course, right?

  • colluvial

    Of course, this doesn’t matter to the believer because they can just say that god suspended the consistency of the universe to allow things that ordinary humans like us would consider to be proven false.

    Theists can't afford to stray far from their refuge of unfalsifiability. In fact, the ability to churn out unfalsifiable claims is one of the few requisite talents of the professional theist.

    • Truth

      And do thou consider there to be such a thing as fact? If so, then do you believe that everything that is known as of now is fact? If indeed you believe the latter then it is imperative that you have succumbed to an incredible ignorance. Even Einstein said that the only 2 things he knew for certain was that the universe is infinite and that man’s ignorance is Infinite… Which he followed saying: “and Im not too sure about the whole universe thing, either”

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  • http://thekeyofatheist.wordpress.com Jakob

    I sometimes mention that the same is claimed of the Quran- a book that also contradicts the divinity of Jesus. Sometimes this devil's advocate approach can coax a theist into making an argument that also undermines their own assertions about the bible. Of course getting them to acknowledge that this has happened is another battle entirely.

    • Truth

      Fair enough, however Mohammed’s interaction with “Gabriel” is described as the Old Testament would describe demonic possession. also, the Quran’s terms for God also coincide with several Hebrew terms describing the devil. It is known that the Quran took Judaism and Christianity and combined it with the pagan Persian religions to gain popularity. After all Mohammed was outcast from the Jews in Mecca for claiming to be a prophet, in which he rounded up the pagans who prayed at the altar in Mecca to slaughter those that outcast him. His teachings are in direct conflict with the rest of the Quran. This is why it is wrong. The H
      Christian Biblr, however, does not have this conflict.

  • Deavon Reye

    I posted, on a christian forum, the facts about the 6th Egyptian Dynasty and its counter to "a global flood", and I believe they were stating that those histories were incorrect. Never got them to get into that much. The thread kinda died quickly.

    I will have to bring up the fact of absolutely no historical accounts of the Egyptian plagues.

    • Truth

      Absolutely wrong. There have been hieroglyphs deciphered using kumeric as the base language that describe a mass exodus in Egypt around the time of Moses, and at the helm was “The great prophet magi Musa”

  • http://www.strategicpublishinggroup.com/title/ProofOfGod.html The Metaphysical Det

    Just to add to the lack of historical accuracy in the bible, just mention to a theist that there is not one shred of evidence that the Exodus took place or, furthermore, that the Jews were held in Egypt as slaves–they go nuts. For that matter, is there any evidence that moses existed outside the bible?

  • Frankly

    I think atheists just try to argue existence with creationists our of sheer entertainment. Most of you are trying to argue, with scientific evidence, against people who believe in a Bible that has a scripture describing how quail and mana fell from the sky to feed the Israeli population while they wandered in the desert. The Bible also described how God led his people through the desert with a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. Is there science to describe how a pillar of fire would randomly form during night hours in the middle of a desert? No, that's absurd. Science follows the laws of the universe. A simple argument against scientific explanations (or lack thereof) is that the laws of physics didn't exist until God put them there, therefor he can manipulate them as he sees fit. Like, if I build a castle out of Legos, then decide to take it apart and build a spaceship instead, I can do just that. Just because it was one thing before doesn't mean I can't change it. I'm the Lego god.

    Atheists also take that same scientific approach when it comes to proving or disproving events in the Bible. That's funny too, because just because He did something in history doesn't mean he had to leave evidence, even if it were a local or global flood. Atheists cry, "Where's the evidence and where'd all the water come from?!" Again, mana, quails, and pillars of fire people. What gets me is how such intelligent people think they can explain away religion in the first place. God isn't based on science in any way, shape, or form. Science would be best described as God's creative expression.

    It just makes me laugh. How could the God that created everything in existence and set the laws of physics in place possibly flood the whole earth and not leave evidence?! Lol. I'm not trying to mock, I'm just putting that out there as why most religious people don't really give atheists any real effort in argument. You're argument is about fire when we're talking about water here lol.

    Basically, you will NEVER get an answer to why even some completely logical people choose to believe in something intangible and sometimes scientifically unbelievable. You might get a better understanding, however, if you seek the "why" of things. Why did this all happen in the first place? If there is an all-powerful God, what's he need us for?

    Start there, and maybe the rest will make some sense.

    • Doug

      That is the point; He does not need us. Anymore than I “need” my kids in the literal sense. However, I will do anything for them, including die for them!

    • kk

      i agree with you Frankly, and to JT, rising from the dead is possible, because it did not only happen to Jesus. even nowadays there are people who rise from the dead, look it up. but the whole thing of this argument between Christians and Atheists is never going to end because were all human so neither one of us can answer every question. not many people have read the Bible from cover to cover, but it is correct though. there is actual historical evidence found from the biblical days such as letters, etc. but im not about to sit here and argue because you are entitled to your opinion and i am not going to stand in your way. but all i ask is that you dont make us look stupid or dumb or take things out of context, that is very rude and disrespectful because we do not do that to you guys. thank you and have a blessed day

      • Truth

        If god is all loving all perfect and all knowing and watches down on everybody seeing everything than why is he allowing so many horrible things happen to so many innocent people. Also if christianity is really about helping and giving than why do the church ask for money? To help people? If that is the case why does the pope not give all his gold and money to help more people. Also how many deaths have occured because of the bible. How many cultures and languages have been destroyed by missionaries?

        • Truth

          Have you ever heard of the wolf in sheep’s clothing? People are capable of lying. Just because people say they are Christians does not make it so.

          This is indeed a perfect world, however it is not a perfect society. The Bible teaches the outline or constitution for the perfect society. However, at this stage in humanity it is irrelevant for God to intervene because if he does then that would undermine the ability of people to have true intentions to follow the teachings of the bible. If you are so distraught over the atrocities of this world then tell me what you have done to fix it? The power of speech and persuasion is great and by those means the word of God has surpassed any good deeds imaginable. So then where is you doubt? Your doubt lies in your want for the nonexistence of God. You love sin, and desperately want it to be right. See how the world is changing to suit that selfish notion and you will come to know Christ as I have.

    • Truth

      Hmm well considering that the laws of physics are really just observations based on what we currently know, it is irrelevant. It is like arguing that the Earth was flat because nothing was found yet to prove otherwise, in the 1300′s. Guess what? There is still much to be discovered with regard to the scope of the Universe. To say that science is pure fact is complete ignorance.

  • Renifer

    Good article. You left out a few things though. Here’s some help.

    Science says “I don’t know, but here is the proven method for discovering the answers.”
    Religion says, “Here are the answers. Trust me.”

    And here is a long list of just 428 things that the Bible got dead wrong:

    Science and History in the Biblehttp://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html

  • disqus_DvhkNfXU1z

    God is real, and the bible has some truths, but also a lot of fantasy.

    • Truth

      Not quite. You must read and study diligently to understand the full context. Don’t be mislead. Those who take what they want out of the bible and throw away what they dislike, believe not in God but themselves.

  • Randi

    If God is the Author of all truth and untruth, then the very text of Scripture is purposefully and supernaturally inspired and trustworthy, even on matters of science. The Scriptures are consistent. God verifies, augments, describes, and cites His creative power without alteration throughout thhe Bible. To the naturalists, this life is all that there is. There is no future, no afterlife. When you’re dead, you’re dead! Teenage suicide is alarmingly high, and therapists themselves continue to manifest one of the highest suicide rates in civilized countries. Scandals aboud among the leaders of world buisness, politics, and even churches. There is no “good news” in the evolutionary theory. There is however, glorious wonder and life-changing power in the “gospel” presented in the Bible. The message of salvation describes an eternal conversion from a spiritually dead and physically dying existence to spiritual eternal life now and a totally flawless “new heavens and earth” in which those who are “saved” will become both immortal and holy. Indeed, man was given the authority to rule and subdue the earth by his Creator, and those disciplines that we call science and technology are the methods by which we uncover much evidence for the functioning of the creation. But the “how” of the beginnings remains far beyond finite mind. To believe that such knowledge is obtainable is to beileve man can obtain equality with the Creator. The idea that the Creator used powers, proccesses, and programming, for which we have neither current knowledge nor the ability to gain such knowledge, makes many people mad. Why? Because the Bible has insists that mans mind is both corrupt and powerless to grasp the creating power of God. Science cannot duplicate or comprehend creation. Man can merely steward or manage that which is held together by the Creator in the long suffering mercy. (2 Peter 3:8-9)

    • Randi

      -The Book of Beginnings

  • Ihavequestions

    If god is all forgiving and accepting why cant he accept homosexuals and if he indeed is all powerful why not just get rid of the devil and stop what he is doing? I also see a lot of images of jesus christ portrayed around the world. When was the last time you saw a tall pale guy originally from the middle eastern part of the world?

    • Truth

      People spread falsities about many things and as much as they’d like it would never make them true. Images of Jesus are irrelevant. Did DaVinci ever see Jesus? Of course not, Then why would you Condemn Jesus for those who came after him and did wrong by him?

      It is imperative for us to be sincere in our works as Christians, doing what is right because it is right and not for greed of an afterlife. That is why even if I could stop believing in Christ today, I would still spread his teachings because I have seen the good that it does.

      As far as homosexuals is concerned, many pagan religions stem with homosexuality and believe that it gives special powers. You can not drink from the cup of the devil and drink from the cup of God as well. Homosexuality demonstrates a love for ones selfs and lust where as a marriage between a man and a woman is giving up the love of the world for the procreation and benefit of a child.

  • Chris

    Isn’t the Bible alone recorded evidence that it occurred?

  • Chris

    “This is the problem with faith: it destroys our reason by removing all our standard checks for proof and accountability.”

    As a faith based person i have heard many religious scholars talk about how faith is “freeing”, not trapping. People with faith still question things just like everyone else if not more.

  • Rawr

    I love this article, I’m only 13 and I know religion has stunted the growth of technologies and government through out time. Historical records have been erased, and master pieces destroyed for the sake of covering religion’s flaws.