What every atheist should say to god… if Judgment Day actually happens!

Posted by in Featured, General Atheism | 134 comments

EDITOR’S NOTE (Adam Brown): This writing was sent to me anonymously, so I tracked down the author on Reddit (well, he found me). It really turned my “atheism dial” up a little. The question of “What if you’re wrong” had always been answered in my head as, “Well, I guess I’ll figure it out when I get there” or, “Well, I lived a good life… maybe I can beg my way in.” It wasn’t until reading this that I realized that I wouldn’t want to spend eternity in heaven kissing the ass of such a tyrant as the Abrahamic God while I watched other people I loved burn in hell without me being able to help them. It isn’t like Santa Claus; you can’t get back on the nice list later. If you are on the naughty list, it’s forever.

 

I hope that this simple, fictional conversation with god will also help you realize that you are right for not believing in him. Don’t be afraid of hell or missing the reward of heaven. Ask yourself after reading this, would you really want to serve a god like this, or deem him worthy to judge you? I wouldn’t. So, the next time a believer asks you, “But what if you’re wrong”, get in their face and politely summarize this article in your own way. Then, turn the question back to them and remind them that if they are wrong… they spent their whole life worshipping a real asshole!

 

 

But What if You’re Wrong?

 

Author: DEXMAC from Reddit – original post http://i.imgur.com/fwgGb.png

Such a wonderfully written piece of atheist literature, that we felt it needed a permanent home on our site in text form – so it would be easier to read. Enjoy.

_______________________

“But what if you’re wrong?” So goes the common questions posed to atheists by Christians. Putting aside for a moment the obvious retort (what if they are wrong and another religion is right?) I decided to really organize my thoughts a bit. What would I say if I was wrong, the Christians were right, and a moment after dying I found myself before the blinding majesty of Yahweh with Christ at his right hand?

 

Oh. Oh dear. I see. Well, I guess this is about as close to incontrovertible evidence for your existence as I could have ever demanded.  Actually, as a good skeptic I pray you won’t get offended if I entertain the possibility that I’m experiencing a hypoxia-induced hallucination.  But, I’ll just go along with this for now.

I’m not going to kneel or anything if you don’t mind.  That would kind of be shutting the barn door after the cows have run out, don’t you think?  Besides: by your will, I was thrust into life in a very undignified manner and state, so the least you could do would be to let me leave it in better circumstances.  And really, that would be the very, very least you could do.  You know, now that the initial shock of being dead is starting to wear off, I find myself getting angry.  I’m trying to restrain it, but this whole situation is… absurd.  According to most accounts, this is the part where you judge me.  Who the hell are you to be a moral judge?  You’re a sadistic, genocidal sex-obsessed tyrant.  All my life, I laughed off those Christians who accused me of “hating God”.  Like I told them, it wasn’t that I hated you; I just genuinely didn’t think you existed.  But I did hate the idea of you.  I didn’t see evidence to believe in any gods, but you in particular seemed like a logical contradiction.  I was glad that the Bible was a work of-seeming-fiction because the belief that all of the most terrible things in the world were, at the worst, designed by or, at the best, permitted by an all-powerful conscious being was too horrible to not hate.  It’s oddly refreshing to find that all this time I was outraged at something more tangible.

Or is this the part where your grand plan is revealed, your “mysterious ways” made clear? Will you say the magic words and suddenly I’ll understand how a child being raped, murdered, and left in a ditch fits in with you infinite benevolence?  Will starvation and disease make sense? Because you know, I don’t think I want them to make sense.  If that’s part of your omniscient knowledge, then I don’t want that part. I guess its fitting:  humanity’s first act of defiance was to want knowledge to be more like you.  Then let my last act of defiance be choosing ignorance so that I can be as unlike you as possible.

This is all perfectly futile.  You know me better than anyone.  You know my mind. You know how I thought. You know – and had the power over- all the circumstances in my life that meant you very existence seemed impossible to me.  After all, you “knit me together in my mother’s womb,” didn’t you?  So am I just a casualty of free will, then?  You wanted worship from people who could choose to worship you and, to satisfy your ego, decided it was a fair price to create people whom you knew wouldn’t choose you and would face eternal torture for it.  You know, even if almost everything had been perfect, a world free from pain and death where everyone would freely choose to spend an eternity with you – except for one person, and yet you made him anyways… then you would still be infinitely more evil than all the worst of humanity combined.  You’re going to judge me? On behalf of all that’s good and decent in your creation, I judge you. I may have been a willful child, but you were a terrible father.

I can’t say I’m really inclined to beg for my soul now, given what I said about you knowing me perfectly.  Even so, supposing mercy’s still an option (and that last rant didn’t kill my chances), I guess it’s worth a shot.  I can’t pretend I have any love for you, but no principle is worth being damned over if it can be helped.  What shall I say in my defense?

I tried to be good without you.  You told your followers to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and visit the sick.  I did those things, not because you told me to or because I thought I was “storing up treasure in heaven”.  I did them for their own sake, for the sake of my neighbors.  When I saw suffering, I tried to help instead of saying a quick prayer to you and believing I’d done something.  And when I didn’t help and suffering continued, I held myself responsible instead of concluding it was just your divine will.

And I was content with one life- in fact, despite how terrible life could be, I was usually quite grateful to have one.  I didn’t demand more.  I was content to create my own meaning in the meaningless chaos, to find love in all the pain, to find the beautiful simplicity in the apparent complexity.  And I have to say, you may have failed basic ethics but you sure had a deft hand when it came to creating the cosmos – not least because you did it in such a way as to make yourself seem irrelevant.  The splendor of the night sky, the incredible diversity of life, everything.  Quantum mechanics? That was crazy, I loved it!  And relativity?  You were on a roll that day, really.  I saw nearly all of your creation for what it was:  wonderful.  I didn’t look at an exquisitely intricate world and call it fallen.  I didn’t look at a newborn baby and call it sinful.  I didn’t look at my seemingly finite life and call it inadequate.

So you created us because you desired companionship and love?  Well then, you needed me.  But I didn’t need you.  I grew up and took responsibility for my own life.  If that really is the greatest crime of all, then there’s nothing more I can say.  The deck was stacked against me, but honestly, I can’t truly say I have any regrets.  Heaven, hell, oblivion… your move, God.

Though I still think I’m probably hallucinating.

  • http://eternalbookshelf.wordpress.com Ani Sharmin

    You’re going to judge me? On behalf of all that’s good and decent in your creation, I judge you. I may have been a willful child, but you were a terrible father.

    I love this part. Honestly, sometimes I do wish there was an afterlife (out of fear of death) but then I remember what kind of afterlife these religions actually describe, and I lose my desire for it.

    This reminds me of Robert A. Heinlein's Job: A Comedy of Justice (which I read) and, if I'm not mistaken, is similar to the ideas expressed in Mark Twain's Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven (which I have yet to read, but have heard about).

    Thanks for posting!

    • Mike

      Ani, if you get a chance, look into MICHAEL NEWTONS books. Pretty awesome read, even if you don't believe any of it. I personally do. That and I've had out of body experiences to support my belief that there is indeed a spiritual realm and we are energy beings having human experiences together. All the best!

  • Ryan

    Love it!

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  • Pepe

    Great! I can't describe in english what feelins gave this to me. But I think a believer could not understand the game in this. I think he would see it as proof that you believe in god in some way.

    By the way, I would like to make a translation of this text to spanish, it would be great to me to show this to some friends.

    I tried to get in contact with the author, but I couldn't as I don't have an account in Reddit. Could you mas him my mail, or pas me his? So I could ask him permission.

    Thanks!

  • Geoff

    Excellent. I just hope I can remember this if and when the time comes.

    • Jureth

      If?

  • http://www.theatheistadvocate.com Kenny Duit

    "What if you're wrong?"

    When I'm dead, I'm five-nines sure it will be exactly the way it was prior to my birth. For millions of years, I was content with non-existence. I will be content for eternity thereafter.

    If, when I die, I should find myself standing in front of one of the 2,800 possible deities, I will have but one thing to say:

    "Your Turn?"

    He should already know every nuance and every possible question I could fathom, as I'm 100% sure atheists have been standing in my place prior to my arrival, asking the same questions. An omniscient god has already heard and answered every thought my little brain could contrive. He would know why I chose atheism while he did nothing to reveal himself.

    I believe there is no need for prayer for this very reason. If god already knows every thought you will ever have, then he has anticipated the response as well.

    BTW, if I do end up in front of a deity when I die, and upon arrival he sneezes, what should I say?

  • Milo

    @Grady

    You are assuming, of course, that when one is dead they retain their sense of the passage of time. God certainly has no such sense. It would contradict that which his followers say about him.

  • Ken

    This doesn't answer the question – what will you do if, when you die, you find that there is a God, and that God is really as vile and evil as the character depicted in the Old Testament? As one of my professors recently pointed out, the physical world is a pretty good argument for Malevolent Design. Why would random evolution create such horrific suffering among so many species that have no hope of avoiding it? What if there really is a God who DELIBERATELY invented traumatic insemination?

    Or, what if God says "It has nothing to do with love, good, or right! Do what I f@$&ing tell you, or I'll torture you FOREVER! Muhahahaha!"

    • balstrome

      Or, what if God says "It has nothing to do with love, good, or right! Do what I f@$&ing tell you, or I'll torture you FOREVER! Muhahahaha!"

      Even then we win! There is no way that a god can win against an atheist, even by appearing to them in person. Even if he faked our personal choice for us, he would still know that he faked it and that we actually won that round.

  • tasha

    "God" is an abuser. As someone who escaped the abuse of a mainstream church whose founder lied, I've always thought what I'd say is the same as what I'd say to an abusive husband I divorced: "I'm perfectly fine spending an eternity without you as long as I don't have to spend one more minute with you."

  • oldebabe

    The best response I've heard to date was the one by R. Ingersoll, IF when he died he found that he had been wrong, and had to face a god, he'd say, "Not enough evidence, Lord."

    Actually, all descriptions of gods, what they do/did (or didn't do), what they said/say, and what they want is, after all, only what some people have decided to write. And like all myths and fables they have been repeated, and imbelished. So, one gets to believe what those people have written, and other people have interpreted, and take their word for it, or not.

  • Ariel

    I get this question so much in other forums and this is MY answer. So what if god exists? That doesn't change the fact that he has done absolutely NOTHING to deserve being loved, worshipped, or respected. My feelings as an atheist will not change. I have done so much better without god (in my 18 years as an atheist) than I ever did with him (in almost 30 years in christianity). I will have no reason to change that opinion should I end up standing in front of him. I'd rather turn on my heel and march into hell. I plan to take hell over anyway. It shouldn't be too hard. The devil is a bit of a wuss compared to the self-centered, vicious deity who was responsible for the slaughter of millions of people, including infants, children and the unborn. Satan/Lucifer/Beelzebub or whatever the hell his name is, doesn't have much of a killing record. Other than wheedling people to death, he doesn't have a lot of power. Yeah, I think that's a plan!

    • DreddPyrateRoberts

      That’s my idea! I even lined up a cushy government job down there.

  • http://www.elvisinmybasement.com Kmuzu

    To most Christians .. I say, "If you're in Heaven I'd rather chance it in hell."

  • Jack

    This reads like the rant of a rebellious teenage boy who was sent to his room without supper and in his angst penned a response to his 'totally unfair' parents! Screw you mom and dad! You never loved me! You gave me life and food and shelter and opportunity ONLY so that you would have someone to be mean to! Big meanies! Why didn't you make 'a world free from pain and death'???? Since you didn't, 'you are infinitely more evil than all the worst of humanity combined'!!! You guys are TOTALLY UNFAIR! Stomp foot, shake fist, pout pout pout.

    Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

    • Kreegs

      *cough cough* excuse me kind sir but you are mistaken, Your parents might have brought you into the world but they could not have foreseen what your every thought action and idea would be like all powerful creating god can. As good Christians always believe god knows our thoughts and a path is preset for us, soooooo why would a god choose to make and set a path for someone he physically knows will grow up to not believe in him and then judge on that same person, and find him wanting on his death? I dont really see how this works?

    • rod serling

      we can all tell you thought it was funny. a bit sinister don't you think?

    • centdrops

      I agree. It is much too tame as a response to a Monster Parent who is about to send you to eternal torture for failing to fear and respect him. It would even be too tame as a response to a devout Jewish parent who is about to have the local god-fearing community stone you to death for giving him cheek.

  • Marshall Neill

    Let's see.. God supposedly created us. We are imperfect. Then this supposed god sits back and says, "I am blaming you for your choices in life." Makes perfect sense to me. Yeah right.

    If your god is so freaking perfect how did he manage to create such an imperfect world and then have the balls to blame the inhabitants.

  • j-qwo

    I wouldn't say anything and kick the bastard square in the nuts. Then, as he lie there in pain, I'd hack a loogie right in his face. Sorry for the grotesque language, but if the god of Abraham were real, that exact revenge would be vastly better than anything he'd ever deserve. Not only would it be a personal reparation for the hell and torment his religion caused the world, not to mention my own social life, but for the misfortune, suffering, misery and disease he blessed my life with.

    I don't want pity from anyone, but if I knew someone was involved in the wretched experiences I have been burdened in this far from perfect kingdom, even if it were inflicted by a divine being of supposed mercy, I'd feel that a quick whack would be the best treatment he deserved in return. Something would need to be paid for such brutal malfeasance, that no mortal being has been able to inflict on the world at any time.

  • Terry

    I will pray for you. Eternal damnation in the fires of hell is nothing to laugh about.

    • Dylan

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Kreegs

      ^ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    • Arthur

      Please don't.

    • Jake

      And why shouldn't we laugh? If we are going to hell then we might as well go there with a smile.

    • centdrops

      A life in the presence of the type of monster depicted in the Old Testament would not be anything to laugh about either. According to the biblical books, none of the three personas of this god ever cracks a joke or makes anyone laugh. According to the same source, one third of the beings who had to live with this Horrific Being were so unhappy about the experience that they rebelled in an attempt to improve life in this hellish heavenly place. If such a place and such a monstrous humorless being exists you should hope that you are eternally high on some soul-altering version of "crack" sot hat you can cope with the eternal horrors.

  • Greg

    Like many arguments supporting atheism there is a lack of understanding about what you are arguing against. Being omnipotent does not cause you to be free from rules, merely that your rules are self imposed. Imagine you are playing a game of Jenga. You really want to remove the blocks from the bottom layer. It is within your power to hold up the stack and prevent it from falling, yet you do not. You either choose to take another block or attempt that block and allow the stack to fall. This is God’s position. The next point atheists raise to this is why would God design such a universe where pain and suffering is irremovable and the answer is he did not. God loved man and therefor gave them the gift of free will. Man being imperfect used his God given power to bind pain and suffering on to our incarnate body. He works to repair the damage we have caused but binds himself, because of his love, with his refusal to take away our free will.

    • Kreegs

      What of the starving children in Africa that have no choice in the matter and have no free will of their own? Born into the world, soon after their parents dead slowly starving away. Seems like free will to me… O btw those children were never baptized OFF TO PURGATORY!!!

    • jake

      meaning god created cancer? not all 'bad' is manmade.

    • centdrops

      According to the biblical record, this god created evil. He also colluded with the "fallen angel" to torture one of his most faithful believers (Job) as part of a divine bet. If such an entity really existed there is nothing preventing him from treating you and those you live in the same fashion, just for another bet. Why would you want to live for any length of time with a being with that kind of "morality"?

  • shadehawk

    way to seriously downplay your deity greg. jenga seriously? you just compared an all seeing, all powerful deity who could build an entire universe in under “a week” to someone holding a stack of blocks and risking a fall by removing a bottom block? heres the problem with that comparison, your god isn’t “some schmuck bound by physical rules like us mortal men”. your god is more akin to a jedi, above the average man to a ridiculous degree. and let me assure you greg, if a jedi played jenga, and he wanted to remove a bottom block, the tower falling would not be a problem

  • Vlad

    Nice but ultimately futile. All a theist needs to do is to say that the god you are talking about is not the real god.

    Don't waste your time by exposing obvious fallacies and inconsistencies religions are full of. They are likely not capable of logical thinking or they would have figured it all out by them self.

    All I ask of any theist before I accept a discussion about religion is a clear definition of god or at least it's major properties (the ones without which it could not be considered a god). Then I ask them to reconcile their convoluted constructs and absurd assertions with common sense and logic, sit back and watch them squirm and spout nonsense over gibberish.

    What if you are wrong? Please describe what is it I may be wrong about?

    • centdrops

      Exact;ly! Just about every theist makes their god in their own image, not in the image of the supernatural personality described in their holy books. They have this naive idea that they are going to meet some ultimate ideal of themselves after they die. It never occurs to them that they might meet someone who has the morals of the supernatural being described in the ancient religious literature they don't read very carefully, if at all.

  • eni

    I like it.
    I’d like to say I’d say the same thing, but if there really is a god I don’t think very many of us are going to be this cocksure of ourselves when we’re staring hell in the face. Though I suppose if we’re already damned for eternity we may as well go out with this kind of a bang :)

  • Jeriel Cooper

    He basically said that because of all the evil in the world how could God exist. God tells us in the Bible that all of these things would happen and Jesus would come back one day and His people would be caught up. After the years of tribulation he would cast the devil and his followers into the lake of fire and make a new heaven and earth. With his strong language he sounded upset with God like he was the devil incarnate saying why would you make me this way and it’s your fault that people are going to hell. The reason God gives us free will is because he wants us to choose him as opposed to the devil who possesses people that don’t have the Holy Ghost. If you choose to serve Him because you are forced than that’s not love. Love is always a choice whether it’s family, friends, or a significant other. Any being that goes through what Jesus did can’t b a tyrant. Him going through what he did on the cross being a perfect being Himself to save man who is wicked by nature is love. He pretty much went through he’ll on earth to give us the choice of …eternal life or damnation. I can’t do anything but love someone who would go through that 4 me because if it is was up to me pretty much everyone would go to hell. Most of us would die for our family but not people that hate, degrade, and abuse us (enemies). If there was no reward or punishment for the way u live after u die there would be no point in having faith in anything. There would be pretty much no point of existing. He is the creator and a loving one so I choose Him, but like I said everything is a choice.

    • centdrops

      There is no proof that a god said anything of the sort. There is only proof that some ancient Jewish, and Middle Eastern writers believed something along these lines while other writers whose works got voted into the Christian Bible had contradictory ideas Ultimately, the claims that you are uncritically regurgitating are the current interpretations of some of these writings by the leaders of your religious group. History indicates that they will abandon or revise these ideas within the next couple of decades and come up with new interpretative claims

      There is no Book of God written directly by either the Jewish Yahweh God or the Jesus God or by a scribe taking down his direct dictation. None of the Jesus God's disciples wrote down anything that their teacher said. All we have is a set of writings based on personal interpretations of faulty human memories of what someone told them that someone told them that someone told them that someone told them that the Jesus God and his followers said, did or experienced. Who was witness to what was said between the Jesus God and Pilot before the crucifixion? Who was the Jesus God praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane and who was listening? Who was witness to the temptations that the Jesus God had after spending 40 days and nights in the desert on his own without adequate food, drink or basic physical requirements? It is all multiply layered hearsay evidence from people who could not have been there to witness it. The evidence is so weak that it would not be accepted as permissable in any modern court of law or any commission intent on learning the truth about something. Yet you believe it without question, just because your religious authorities tell you that it is true!

      • Jeriel Cooper

        Every book in the Bible was written by someone God appointed to write that specific book. There is proof everyday that Gkd exist whether you choose to believe it or not. The things you here about on the news dealing with natural disasters, wars etc. God already talked about these things. I’ve witnessed actual miracles and God speaking through people. I’ve seen actual demon possessed people that were only saved by rebuking them in the name of Jesus and no not in the movies. If there wasn’t a God why do you think people are fighting so hard do discredit him, and stop Jesus from ever being mentioned. Have you ever heard the saying the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people that he doesn’t exist. You have probably never witnessed any kinds of attacks by the enemy because he isn’t worried about people he already has. That’s not to say you’re an evil person. It’s just there is no gray area with God. Either you believe in Him or you choose to die and go to hell. If you deny Him before man He will deny you in Heaven. It also talks about what you said about people trying to change up what certain religions are taught. The anti-christ will try to make everyone believe in him so that everyone can go to he’ll with him. If there was no afterlife nobody would follow any religion including me. The way you live on this earth has great rewards or repercussions depending on if you accept Jesus or not. I pray you accept Jesus one day because I don’t wish hell on anyone. The consequences of your what if are a lot more severe than mine.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000314962648 James Kelly

          Prove it.

          • Jeriel Cooper

             http://youtu.be/3HufRFLtwWQ

            • Skeptic

              Where is it? I only see a woman acting crazy.

              • Jeriel Cooper

                Yea of course you do. That’s because you don’t acknowledge that their are demons as well as angels. The same way you don’t believe there is a devil or God. You will be forced to acknowledge it one day. I just hope it’s not too late. Just ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you, and see what happens. Don’t do it mockingly either because you might not like his response. You probably won’t because atheist want to be able to live any kind of way without any consequences. All I can do is pray for you. I pray you all find Christ one day.

                • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=559435270 Andrew Maw

                  LOL I mock “Gods” ass all the time….nothing happens. Here tonight, Ill ask your “god” to prove himself/herself to me and I promise you it will be a mockingly way. Ill let you know the results ok! By the way, I am not an atheist, I am an ANTI-theist!

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brendan-Grimestad/100000725444164 Brendan Grimestad

              Interesting how demons always pick on the most obscure, ignorant people. (Ever heard of a rich white corporate CEO or politician getting possessed and foaming at the mouth?)
              Fifty cents (which is about $.50 more than Bishop Bloomer’s credibility is worth IMHO) says that “possessed” woman was a plant. Kind of like John Edward and his supposed contacting of people’s (plants actually) dead family members on TV.

  • Mango

    Well that’s quite the monologue. Should I ever find myself in that situation I would regard “The Lord” and say “Don’t get me started!”
    In any case, I’ve long felt that, if there was a God, we already have an “understanding” so s/he could forgo the bullshit and wave me on through – or not. What Ever. lol.

  • Logical Larry

    Nice article! This kind of wiriting is not for relious people, its intended audience is the atheist. You will never get the religious person to give up their belief in fairy tales, what is needed is action. Discover militant atheism…it is the solution to the disease that is religion. What is needed is a dismantling of the religious systems. Religions perpetuate themseleves through the socialisation or indocitrination of our youth. We need to cut the tree off at its roots. Join active atheist groups that are working to this end. All relgious schools must be abolished. It must be made illegal to take a child under the age of 18 to a church or religion gathering of any kind. Those that aer proven to be exposing their children to religion at home must be arrested and imprisoned. Examples must be set. All of this can be achieved by forming more action orientated atheist groups. Governments must be lobbied to enact laws that drive all religions out of business. Chains will be broken, religions will die. This is the only way and its unlikely to come about in my lifetime. One thing is true, however, it will NEVER happen if we don't make a start. Google "local atheist groups" today and become a part of the true destiny of our species.

    • Brooklyn Cravens

      Land of the free, eh, Logical Larry? You sound a lot like Hitler, especially if instead of "religion" we say "Jews". The fact you say you know the "true destiny of our species" shows just how narrow-minded you are.

      "Every religious person has reasons for their faith, and every skeptic has faith in their reasons." – Tim Keller

      That includes you, sir. You sound like you've got a nice religion going on in your post against religion.

      • Karp

        Larry’s statement is particularly harsh, but I do agree that children should not be able to enter a church or profess their faith until they are old enough to make that decision when they are experienced and they are without pressure. When ot comes to this, children should have freedom not to be indoctrinated into a religion, which at this point, they clearly don’t.
        Your quote isn’t profound in the slightest. I have reasons for my reason, and people in faith have faith in their faith. Reason and religious faith are incompatible.

        • Reason

          If by reason you mean a bunch of chemicals formed over billions of years around your head that make some predictions or are appealing for survival and pornography, no I wouldn’t trust them.

    • Child of God

      Well, “Logical Larry”, your statements are irrational and illogical. You advocate taking away peoples’ freedom of religion and freedom of speech and other basic fundamental human rights and Constitutional freedoms. What if this happened to you? What if the government decided to silence you in the way you advocate others to be silenced? You are a fool who is headed for the Lake of Fire unless you repent and turn to the Lord Jesus Christ.

  • Tiggy

    "Like many arguments supporting atheism there is a lack of understanding about what you are arguing against."

    Arguing for god is arguing for something nonexistent. At least atheists are trying to understand the non-delusional world. Also, omnipotence is just a vague word invented by fantasy theorists (christians) describing only one creature, god, a creature with no cells, no blood, no proof.

  • Greg

    I object to the statement that there is no proof. While this is true it carries the suggestion that there is proof to the contrary. I can not prove to you the existence of my God, as the things that are the basis for my certainty are not transferable from person to person. What I can present is responses to claims of disproof. As evidence is inconclusive in either direction I submit it is an equally large leap of faith to presuppose the existence of God as to presuppose the contrary.

    • Adam

      @ Greg: Of course we cannot prove a negative… no one can. But, if we can prove that the aspects of your god that are primarily attributed to him are false, then the burden of proof for existence is on you. God is supposed to have created the earth and answer prayers regularly. We can prove those to be false, in the biblical sense. If I can prove a ballerina owns no tights and is missing a leg, can we still call her a ballerina. "Myth" is a better term than god, by definition.

    • DNB

      I'm not even a religious and I think your logic completely sound. I've honestly never seen a Christian or religious person give a LOGICAL defense for their belief. You're the first.

    • Rod Serling

      That might be the second most paradoxical claim I've ever heard. Stating that there is no proof in no way suggests proof of anything let alone the contrary. How could the suggestion of existence in any matter logically follow the claim of nonexistence?

  • Greg

    I agree with you entirely that the burden of proof rests on the faith community, and I concede that we can not provide it. What I disagree with you on is whether there is sufficient evidence to disprove aspects. For example the examples you offer prayer and creation can not even be disproved to within a scientific standard. I have seen studies on prayer that generally are meaningless because they cannot create a control group. Most are based on studying healing rates and fail to account for the thousands whose prayers include prayers for the sick without a specific person in mind. Likewise Christians cannot even agree on what the creation means or entails. It is not possible to disprove you cannot define. Most avoid this by targeting the most extreme conservative viewpoint. For every belief that science can debunk there are several more that they can't. The more scientifically tolerable are the more widely held especially among the younger generations. The point I am making however is that if one were to base there beliefs solely of the facts available the resulting conclusion would be that it is unknown rather than it is or it isn't.

    • Karp

      Whether we can determine things exist or something is true or not is pinpointed ny evidence. If there is no evidence, then it is safe to assume it does not exist. You say that the problem with proving it is that it is next to impossible. This is true. However, this allows us to conclude that other gods and evem things such as invisible, intangible objects are equally likely to exist. I can know just as much as you can about the existence of something; if you say god exists, I can say unicorns exist. Our statements have the same truth value without any evidence. Saying that anything cannot be possibly proved or disproved does not add anything to something’s truth value.

  • Cienna J.

    I'd rather go to hell with people like me than be in heaven with people like you.

  • makingasense

    this makes zero sense you make the assumption that you are somehow a match for an almighty God. In reality if you were to come face to face with God the one described in the bible and believed to be God by many you would behave in the way exactly how it is said you would behave. you would fall on your face tremble, cry, and beg for your life. The second you stand before you will realize that your standing before the God who created everything whos word is law who hold the judgement of your soul in his hand. Before the presence of such being no human is gonna be able to say or do anything your not gonna be saying all these stupid snide remarks your gonna come to the realization that you are even more of a nothing then you thought in the presence of an all powefull God who has showed you more mercy then you deserve by not sending you to hell the first time you sinned. you will fall flat on your face and beg.

    • LeftSidePositive

      Well, for one thing this is a pretty pedantic argument, since this all-powerful-wow-machine doesn’t actually exist, BUT does that mean that if you found yourself face-to-face with Hitler that you’d suddenly fall on your face and beg? History is filled with people who stood up to tyrants and weren’t going to let the tyrants’ ability to inflict pain break their spirit and dignity. You could learn a lot from that.

      Also, you seem to think that we’ll be in some way impressed if we meet this highly-highly-highly-unlikely-to-exist God–maybe all his power will just look like petty bullying from someone with no consistent or respectable ethical foundation?

    • Saximus

      “you would fall on your face tremble, cry, and beg for your life.”
      If that is the sort of reaction that is expected/commanded by your God he/she sounds like a giant bully and a douche. Why would someone want to worship that?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brendan-Grimestad/100000725444164 Brendan Grimestad

      It makes great sense if God is a myth. I’m definitely a match for ANY non-existent, fictional character! (I’m also a bigger badass than Rambo because unlike him, I can actually HURT you… even if that means cutting your knuckles with my teeth, or causing you to have a heart attack due to over-exertion from kicking me in the head after knocking me down. Why? Because unlike Rambo or Yahweh, I actually exist.)

  • Nick

    I dare you to say this, though I know you wont even be able to open your mouth. Yet while you breath there is still hope.

  • http://goldminingequipment.info Gold Striker

    The person admits they recognize the complexity and splendor in the world and cosmos. One must also recognize the interdependence in it all as well.

    This world is great even in it's current state but only in certain ways. You can see very much wrong and so many horrible things that happen.

    Mankind is not good it has done almost any kind of evil you can imagine and more. This is all a shadow of what it will be when all is restored.

    I'm a christian and if anyone wants to find me I'm on stickam in the various atheists channels there.

  • HonestAtheist

    I'd say "Hey my bad, but you know me, can you blame me? So is it true that the Romans made you a huge dick? How do you feel about all the jerks using you as a justification for their bad behavior?"

    The way I see it, if there IS a god or god-like creator, he's probably not like any of the gods that holy books speak about. Those were all written by humans. Why would anyone think that humans could understand or interpret the feelings of a super-powerful deity? Imagine it–you create an entire universe, an entire existence, you create beings in your image–and your followers make you out to be a huge douchebag. Not only that, but the ones who DON'T believe in you are huge jerks as well. They talk shit about you and pretend like they're smarter than you are. And then everyone else in between just doesn't give a damn. It'd be lonely to be a creator.

    I wouldn't be an asshole. I think as atheists we should be lucid enough to consider the possibility that if we ARE wrong, god may be NOTHING like any religion makes him or her out to be. So why should we all be snippy assholes?

  • Tyler

    So, the writer of this article wanted to be forced to worship God from the day he was born? This article makes no sense. I suppose he feels that at no point during his rant God would interject? You can't celebrate free will and then condemn it in the same statement. Why are atheists so angry with God? I don't understand why you would hate someone that you claim doesn't exist. Seems like a waste of energy to me.

  • Ben

    I myself am an Atheist, but if you're facing someone who is truly what the the bible says: Omnipotent and omniscient, don't you think he could easily convince you otherwise of your beliefs?

  • Dan

    So, basically, since God didn't follow Adam's rules Adam won't like God. Good luck with that.

  • 4Life

    I have one thing to say to you Logical Larry… and that is to read revelations. Don't you get it? You are doing God's Will wether or not you believe in him. People like you is what scares me. In the future, people will die because of their religion. Oh you may not think it now, you may not believe what I say, but it's true. Look it up, and then think about what you just said. Truly think about it, without being in denial.

    Also, I don't think any of you will be able to stand there by the thrown and cast your hate speech on God. He will most likely cast you out before one word is uttered.

    And hell isn't something to laugh about. It's serious business. And I doubt you will be laughing much.

    As for the whole God is evil because he has let bad things happen. Do you have a kid? If so, if you child tells you that he hates you, will you stop loving him? Think of it in terms with God and you. He still loves you, and always will. He can't force you to believe in him any more than you can force the sky to turn from blue to purple. You know why? Because he will be taking away your free will. He wants you to love Him without Him proving it.

    There's a verse in the Bible where Jesus tells his followers that they have faith because he is there in the flesh. But he goes on and tells them that true faith is when a person believes without a shred of evidence, once he is gone.

    Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to make the world believe that he wasn't real. And how did he do that? By making you believe that there is no God. Thus, if there is no God, there is no devil. I just pray that one day you will open your ears and listen to what the bible has to say.

    Yes, the churches are corrupt. Most anyways. Jesus reveals that in Revelations with the letters to the churches. To hate God for what the churches have done is like hating the sun for a rainy day.

    • austin

      Great points, I just went through Revelation and you hit the nail on the head (not being saracastic either)

    • no way, yahweh.

      only one problem with your argument, 4life. If my kid hates me, i know he hates me because he doesnt understand why i make him go to bed at 930, or why he has to wear a helmet. someone would hate god because their spouse got cancer, or if their kid was hit by a car. another thing, my kid wont believe that i lead an alternate life as a purple elephant wrangler, so why should i believe my 'heavenly father' is omniscient and omnipotent? If you could stop every bad deed before it happened, WOULD YOU? probably, yet you worship a deity who refuses to.

  • Dee

    I really enjoy all the comparisons – on both sides – of god to our own parents. No, you can't blame your own parents for all evil in the world, or for your own bad/stupid decisions, but if my parents were walking by a child being abused and did nothing… then yes, I could fully blame them for their inaction.

    As for god's love being unending, even if we atheists 'hate' him by not believing, then I ask this: What loving parent, no matter their child's screw up or evil ways, would send that child – who they love mind you – to ETERNAL punishment. Maybe a ten-twenty year time out, that I could understand and accept, but eternity is forever. No second chances. No parent or god could ever spout everlasting love and forgiveness, and yet at the same time offer that sort of punishment for a single lifetime of errors.

    Comparing god's INFINITE time to our 1 to, we'll say 120 years here on earth, to say that decisions we make during this brief span of time determine were will will spend the rest of eternity is not love, or even logic at that point.

    If I were to meet god after death, and was still of enough sound mind to speak, I would simply ask, that if he had omnipotent knowledge and power, and knew exactly what would happen before he even created the universe in question, then why bother at all? He would know exactly what would happen by putting that tree in the garden of Eden with his free-willed creations, and he knew exactly what giving the future thinkers of the world no evidence of his existence would accomplish.

    Going to the jenga analogy…this is more like creating the game of jenga then playing jenga and knowing exactly which blocks will make the whole thing tumble down and still pulling them out anyway, WHILE telling the jenga blocks that it's their own imperfect shape that led to the collapse, then, throwing the fallen pieces into the fireplace for working exactly the way you created them to.

    • mayraaa

      Eternal punishment? WRONG!! ppl tht do not believe or don’t repent will never get eternal life, even if it ain’t in heaven.

  • Charlie

    Great post, but not trying to undermine the tone of it… is there a shorter version?

    You know..in case the Ol' Mighty being gets offended and (re)kills us with lighting or something after the first pharagraph…sending us to "hell" :P

  • SKATE4THEHERB

    OMG WOW THIS IS THE BEST ONE I HAVE EVEN SEEN…THE LAST PART WAS THE BEST." I grew up and took responsibility for my own life. If that really is the greatest crime of all, then there’s nothing more I can say. The deck was stacked against me, but honestly, I can’t truly say I have any regrets. Heaven, hell, oblivion… your move, God."

  • http://www.thereason.cc mike

    Wow. Pretty decent little piece of work. Kudos. Hope you are enjoying the ensuing hilarious arguments in the comments section :D

  • Pingback: What are we to God? « quietAtheist

  • Brooklyn Cravens

    For a writer so beyond the idea of God, they sure have put a lot of time and effort into the Biblical God. This is more of an angry rant. Lots of I's.

    Also, it seems this writer views God through a good-works lens as well as a lens that this life is horrible and only heaven matters.

    Jesus never told his followers to store up treasures in heaven like they are objects of entertainment. Does anyone care about context anymore?

    And if this writer ever did read more than a few verses of Scripture (in contextual sequence), they would know that God cares about people's lives now. Not just in the next life.

    Pointing to global suffering is useless. God is too big to provide a single answer as to why suffering occurs — even the writer concedes to as much. However, given atheists are willing to say "I don't know" to so many of life's toughest questions, it's really dumb to focus on that single question in an attempt to 'logically' disprove God when so many holes in atheism 'logically' do the same.

  • balstrome

    "It isn’t like Santa Claus; you can’t get back on the nice list later. If you are on the naughty list, it’s forever."

    I have to nitpick here, the above for me does not apply, because they have failed to show that Santa, a naughty list, or gods actually exist. So until then I would say to them to go away and find some evidence, no really I do not want to hear your speech until you can prove your claim.

    I am willing to show my proof that gods do not exist, (I look around my room and find no gods) but that is all I am willing to deal with for now. Anything else is giving credit where it is not due. It allows them, the theist a form of respectability that says that while they have not proved their position, we will accord it the same rights as if they have done so. What other field of research is this type of behaviour allowed in?

  • Sounds familiar.

    You know who else says you should say something to someone that doesn't agree with you?

  • you know

    yes if only we knew God's infinite justice then this article would make sense God's justice and our justice are different people we sinned which means we deserve to be raped and murdered we deserve death that is the punishment for sin we deserve worse than what we have and God has just as much wrath as he does love wrath is one of his more quoted qualities in the bible more than love

    • http://www.facebook.com/samuelnstevens Sam Stevens

      Did you really just say people deserve to be raped and murdered?  I truly hope this was a satire; if you knew anything of what rape does to a girl or a woman, you would not say that.  Of course, I am assuming you have a shred of moral sense, and your comment clearly illustrates that you do not.  Just for your case, I sort of hope there is a God and he sends your vile, disgusting soul straight to hell for saying something as sick and disgusting as that. 

  • jebus

    We the atheists do a little thing at work,ask if you believe and if you say no as a test we hold your hand and say jesus is a c**k s***er and I hope he hits my with lightning right now , funny how quick your hand gets dropped and they step away.LMAO

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=559435270 Andrew Maw

      LOL i have done this to many people. It is funny to see the people who are confused and will pull away. I call them closet Christians!

  • Chris Brown

    I love this. It calls to mind my absolute favorite moment in literature: Ivan's monologue from The Brothers Karamazov, which should be required reading for any atheist. If there is a god then even the most rudimentary shred of our human understanding of ethics morally obliges to oppose him. Or her.

  • Raven

    Nice essay! It's nice to see this written out in a thoughtful way without losing its humor. I willhave to keep this handy for future reference, too. When faced with this question (as I seem to be constantly), my reply is either "Well, you know what they say: Heaven for scenery, Hell for company…" or else simply "At least I'll know people…."

    And yeah, I hope you're getting some giggles out of the all-too-predictable theistic screeds….

    • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

      You’ll be on your own in hell, alone, forgotten. Matt 8:12

  • Michael

    You certainly have fucked up most of everything. And I do NOT like the idea of you being an asshole to women, minorities and gays!

  • pael

    Sorry atheists, it isn't going to go down that way. In the presence of Holy God, your hypocripsy and evil will be utterly exposed and you will know at that instant that the only thing good about you came from Him. You will see all the things He did for you, all the love He showed you, and all the ways He tried to reach you, and you will see how it was only your preference for evil which prevented you from knowing Him. Your next realization will be where you're going next, and how you will be separated from God forever. You will not be wagging your tongue at God, you will be trembling with fear and shame.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000314962648 James Kelly

      Your beloved god is the epitome of evil. What a pathetic human being you are to be willing to follow such a tyrant. You disgust me.

      • Kanna-Chan

        You are going to be held accountable for every word. God isn’t the evil One, man is. Man causes all evil and then tries to blame it on God.

        • Jaydee

          read your own damn book. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=559435270 Andrew Maw

          Actually you are completly incorrect 90% of wars in this world have been because of religion. It is still happening. Open your eyes, there is no “god” Once people do this, the world would in fact be that much more of an enjoyable place to live! FACT!

  • http://bob.com No one will ever read this

    I didn’t read all the comments. I’m an atheist. If, somehow, I ended up in front of a creator (no matter what creator it would be), I would not be confrontational and argumentative. I would ask sincere questions to find the truth. Isn’t that what the whole thing is about? To know the truth? It shows how petty this situation has become that even in the face of IMAGINARY incontrovertible proof, you still IMAGINE that you act like an asshole. Truth is truth. No matter how much it contradicts your worldview. You may not like it, but it’s still the truth.

    • http://www.facebook.com/keithbaker.memphis Keith Baker

      No this isn’t petty, children dying with a Bible thrust into their hands isn’t petty. You MAKING WORDS CAPITALIZED to assert some opinion is petty.

  • Mike

    I have a question. It's a puzzle to me. Can you prove that anything you are experiencing is actually real outside of your biological nervous system of senses? (Think of Neo being hooked up the Matrix)

    I have had a shift and realization that there is nothing outside of my experiences anymore. The room that I'm sitting in and the people and world are now percieved inside of my nervous system… they are as one. Before there was an illusion of sereration, but now that has diminished. My senses and the outside world I percieve are now as one.

  • Mia Dela Cruz

    I do agree that the response above is filled with too much angst. One Catholic asked me that once–what if I was wrong about everything? Considering all these religious shit was true–that I find myself, after dying, in the midst of my supposed Creator, and be judged according to what fit his liking. I’d demand for explanations I guess. And had he none to give me (this is what I would highly expect), I’d be willing to walk straight into hell. I read this quote somewhere, actually. I don’t quite remember who said it, but I won’t claim ownership to the wonderful point it makes. It goes something like: I’d readily turn my back on this God and walk straight into hell. You’d have another thing going if you’d expect me to be part of this creator’s world–this creator who supposedly moulded the very mechanisms of our mind, of our rationality, of our knowledge, wisdom, of our capability to think and doubt, of the most valuable blessings he would have offered us. I don’t think you’d expect me to respect him after creating all these and then commanding me to abandon these abilities, to go without these, to be blind, to act on unfounded faith alone. If that’s the kind of God he supposedly is, then heck, I wouldn’t care for I’d rather be in hell than to be part of his world. …The theist who asked me was of course, shocked and couldn’t fathom what I had said. She must have thought I was going to surely burn in flames for my words.

    • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

      Satan is laughing and will have you by the nuts. Pslam 14

  • Child of God

    You are, to be blunt, an utter fool. The word of God states that the lips of unsaved people will be silent before HIM in His blinding glory. The holy unfallen angels cover their eyes from His blinding holiness, and you, pitiful, fallen, arrogant sinner, think you will be able to give backtalk to almighty YAHWEH Himself?! Are you insane? By the way, all of your value judgements have no basis if there is no God. If atheism is true there is no ultimate standard of good or evil. All there is is opinion. By making value judgements you prove there is an ultimate standard and an ultimate standard requires God to set it. By what basis do you judge good or evil? You have none but your opinion if there is no God. Many atheists went before you and are now burning in endless concious torment and will be cast into the Lake of Fire where they will experience torment forever. Why do you atheists get angry when we tell you youre headed for Hell without Jesus if Hell doesn’t exist? You shouldn’t get upset at it but this is more proof that it is real.

    • Adam

      You arrogant, narcissistic prick. Your belief that I’m going to burn forever in hell while you kiss god’s ass is disgusting and disqualifies you from rational conversation.

      • archangelariel

        consider the those two options very carefully and choose wisely. there will come a time that you personally will know He is the real deal I just pray it happens before your death then all bets are off.

      • Bob

        You do worship a god, he is the god of this world, deny all you want, but it is a fact. I can tell by your language you are one of his choosen.

    • LeftSidePositive

      Please cite some credible proof that atheists actually are burning in hell.

      If you had two neurons to rub together, you’d know that we’re not the least bit offended when you tell us we’re going to hell out of any actual fear of hell itself–because it’s not a real place. We’re not fearful; we’re angry at you for being a shithead. We’re offended that someone could be so callous as to expect a fellow human being to suffer endlessly, and to take a great deal of glee and moral superiority from that superstition.

      As for the canard about good and evil proving god: bollocks. Setting aside for a moment the monstrosities you followers admiringly attribute to your god, here is a RATIONAL, evidence-based definition of good and evil relying solely on our understanding of this world:

      In fact, atheists are perfectly able to attribute goodness to actions and philosophies that maximize human benefit, broadly defined as encouraging cooperation, enhancing human lifespans, treating others with respect, alleviating suffering, being honest, enforcing fair and just social and political institutions, and so on–all of these can be more than adequately validated by our experience here on Earth and our ability to empathize with others. We don’t need a Magic Jesus Sky Friend to bribe us into realizing that kindness and honesty help others and ourselves. Evil is pretty simply defined as things that cause human suffering, broadly defined as shortening human lives, causing people to endure pain, thwarting human beings’ innate need to make decisions about their own bodies and goals, undermining the trust inherent to a cooperative society, demeaning human dignity, perpetuating unfairness and inequality–again, all of these may be more than adequately validated by our understanding of what we and other people go through when these bad things are done, without needing some supernatural arbiter.

      (Apologies for quoting myself, but it’s pretty much the exact same fallacy some God Squadder had on the other thread, so no need for new words!)

      • EclecticPhilosopher

        I support most of what you have said, LeftSidePositive. However, I would like to point out that you are not necessarily correct in stating that there is no Hell. For that matter, no person who claims that anything along the lines of religious figures, mythical creatures, or magical powers do not exist is committing a logical fallacy. True, there is no evidence pointing toward their existence; however, there is no evidence pointing toward their non-existance. No matter how much evidence you present, there is always the possibility that you have not yet discovered how they ARE possible. A religious person could always say that God exists outside of the known principles of science, and no person can prove otherwise. The reason is that there is a basic law of logic; that is that one cannot disprove existence (or a “negative” as some prefer to say), one can only prove the existence of something (presumably, a “positive”).

        What this means is that the existence of God is a logical moot point and that discussion on the matter is pointless. We have not proven God’s existence and we cannot prove God’s non-existence. It is on this basis that I claim to hold no opinion on God or religion at all. I am not an Atheist, as Atheism has quite a clear view on the matter. As far as I know, there is no widely accepted term for what I am. I suppose you might call me ambivalent or equivocal.

        • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

          Your Agnostic

          • Will

            You’re*

      • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

        We all deserve to go to hell because we are all shitheads, and smartasses, I’m glad Christ came, he came to save not condem, apparently athiest have there heads so far up satans ass, you don’t even realize it, Pslam 14

        • Gary Graham

          Not really into the “thinking for yourself” thing, are you?

    • skarlett_ohara

      Wow. Just wow. People like YOU make me want to run away as quick as possible from every church out there. You have no love or good inside you. It does not matter whether you love *him* or not, what matters is what you do to those around you. And you are cruel and purposefully mean; even more – proud of it. YOU are a disgrace to human nature.

    • GregHoman

      Just admit it — your thinking that we’re headed to hell means that subconsciously people like you are prejudiced at us and hate us. That’s why we’re angry at you fundies all the time. 

    • ramiadot

      Who wants to be in any ‘heaven’ if it’s full of people like you?! That rather sounds like HELL to me! But lucky you, NEITHER exists – otherwise you’d be plucking a harp until eternity freezes over – except, of course, the hell you are creating here on Earth for yourself, your ‘brethren’ and for all those who you’ll not even amuse by the constant polishing of your imagined halo.
      If ‘Paradise’ is such a desirable place for you, why don’t you get a ticket and just go? IF you find the God of the bible there, tell him to get on his feet and run – we’re after him for mass murder, incitement to violence, endorsing the slave trade, immorality, incitement of child abuse and many, many other serious offenses! If he’s lucky he can claim that he’s just ‘crazy’, but I don’t think so – he’s far worse than that.
      I could think of a few names, but I’d be probably accused of invoking Godwin’s Law (yes, Godwin’s, not “God’s”, you muppet!). Any names come to mind? Ah – don’t get me started …

      • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

        Why don’t you people ever put the blame where it belongs? with Satan. blaming the one who created us is stupid, he didn’t create or cause evil at all.

        • Jaydee

          I wish Christians would read their book. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    • mayraaa

      I am a Christian and I know that God gives ETERNAL life only to his people. I do not like what has bren said in this article either but any non believer or the sinners tht did not repent WILL NEVER receive the gift of eternal life!! They will die in the lake of fire once their bodies pay for every single sin has been accounted for.

      • Will

        Your point of view is sick and disgusting. I feel sorry for you.

    • Will

      I love how religious people come here to troll and vote up comments that match their opinion.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brendan-Grimestad/100000725444164 Brendan Grimestad

      I wouldn’t get angry if you had the power and influence in American society that you deserve… which is ZERO power and influence. I’d have the same slightly amused pity for you that I have for, say… the Jonestown cultists.
      Unfortunately, you DO have great power and influence in our society (one of you was President of the United States for 8 years) and your barbaric belief in a contemptible, cruel, vicious deity causes untold suffering to millions of ignorant people in America, and the world. And so, I get “upset” (righteously indignant actually) at the idea of your barbaric (and frankly evil!) Bronze Age superstition about a “god” (or is it demon?) who isn’t even enough of a sport to allow those who failed to accept him to fade into painless oblivion (which is what many folks – myself included – really wanted after death, anyway. I didn’t – and don’t – “choose” eternal torture!)

    • http://www.facebook.com/izlude.hyral Izlude Hyral

      We get offended because you are stating it as if you think it’s fact for one. For two you have no evidence that is the case, and for 3, If I tried to tell you that santa exists, and you better be good or he’s giving you coal this year, you’d look at me like I was absolutely ludacris.

    • http://www.facebook.com/izlude.hyral Izlude Hyral

      Also: We wouldn’t need to say it. He would already know if he existed :P

    • san

      if you think christianity is great what about other religions that exist in other parts of the world:? they have their own holy books and they despise Christinity, they think their god is better than your jesus.. what about that?

  • pxlmvr

    … boy. is this guy in for a surprise …

  • archangelariel

    “The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.” It seems to me that atheists much time trying to disprove the existence of God the father of us all and even try to force removal of religious monuments from public places. I review this as attack on Christians. Well the fact is that America was founded on freedom OF religion NOT freedom FROM religion. I finish with this very truthful message to all atheist and fence sitting agnostics – you can defiantely flip the bird at God and deny His existence all you want for now, but there will come a time that each of you will most certainly believe as you stand before Him for judgment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/james.t.woodward James Thomas Woodward

    After reading many of the comments I am sad. Sad because what I read can be paraphrased like this: God made the world and it has terrible things in it, therefore He is responsible, so if I met Him I’d let Him know and tell Him of course I don’t choose you.
    In that Hypothetical there is no difference from our current experience. God invites anyone and everyone into a relationship now, to tell Him those thoughts. Yet it is you who still reject that invitation. We (humanity) justify our rejection with any and all means we can create, but it seems very clear to me that our rejection is the problem.
    The World wasn’t a bad place according to the Bible in Genesis. It started out Perfect and we choose to reject that. We didn’t just say no to God, we said no to Perfection.
    I desperately want to know what an Atheist claims to be striving for if not Perfection? Betterment? What drives them to live? I really just don’t understand the logical link of how our choices and nature isn’t what’s wrong with the world.
    One of the comments even said “they don’t blame anyone but them self that suffering still exists in the world”. I find that a hard to imagine statement, that someone is so humble that they attribute their own existence to the problems that plague Humanity. Yet in that same comment they degraded another person’s beliefs, it wasn’t an invitation to figure out truth or asking them why they believed that, it was cold and spiteful, equating that person’s worth to negative value.
    As for the conclusion of this persuasive essay, which many comments seem to think was a good ending. God created us because He needed us? God is very clear as to why He created us, it was out of an abundance of Love. You can find this verse in Genesis as well and if anyone needs me to point out where just PM me, I’ll be happy to read the Bible with you. Just as I am happy to read Science, Philosophy, Mathematics, Ethics, Geography and any other area of knowledge with a fellow human being.
    I have many Christian friends, many Atheist friends and I find it hard to have them engage and be friends with each other. Why do I seem to prosper and get along with both while so many are hostile towards each other? My conclusion based on empirical observation of data (I am happy to post my findings in a formal document) is because they choose to.
    At no point in this Essay or any form of rationality does anyone find God’s existence, or lack thereof. They just choose if He exists or doesn’t and then justify it as best they can. That is the essence of Faith, to choose without empirical data, that doesn’t mean it is illogical or invalid as so many people seem to associate a lack of something material.
    Remember the wise words of Albert Einstein “Lack of existence of evidence isn’t evidence of lack of existence”.
    I wish everyone who has read this Essay and who have contributed to it and who are a Known member of Creation the very best. I pray God seeks you until Eternity and my Hope is that He still seeks you in Eternity. That He fervently blesses you and those you love, He wishes no Ill on any of His Children and as a Child of Him, I wish only the best for all.

  • John

    to all religious followers of God who have commented on this article:

    In my opinion (and God can back me up on this one with a little something called The Bible), you have no right to judge these atheists. Move on with your life. According to scripture once you get into Heaven you will be so awestruck you won’t have anything to say or think; you’ll just praise Him. You’ll forget about the schmuck that cut you off on the freeway and you’ll forget about these people stating their opinions and beliefs. According to what you all believe these people will be tortured in the Lake of Fire for eternity and you (up in heaven) won’t give a rats ass. So do God and everyone a favor and don’t give a rats ass now because I’ve had it with people arguing over something that will never be settled. If you don’t like atheists maybe you should stop surfing the web.

  • Ro_free

    PERSPECTIVE: “A minister and a barber who boasted of being an atheist walked one day through a disreputable part of the city. As they looked around, the barber said, “This is why I can’t believe in a God of love. If He is as kind as they say, why does He permit all this poverty, disease, and squalor? How can He allow all this drug-dealing and vandalism?”

    The minister said nothing until they came across and unkempt and filthy man with hair down his back and a half inch of stubble down his face. Then he said to the atheist, “You can’t be a very good barber or you wouldn’t let people live around here without a haircut and a shave.”

    Indignantly, the barber answered, “Why blame me for that man’s condition? I can’t help it if he is like that. He’s never given me a chance! If he would only come to my shop, I could fix him up and make him look like a gentleman!”

    With a penetrating look, the minister said, “Then don’t blame God for allowing these people to continue in their evil ways. He constantly invites them to come to Him and be changed. The reason they are slaves to sin and evil habits is because they refuse to accept the One who died to save and deliver them.”–Boa & Moody, I’m Glad You Asked

    • db

      i like this

  • Bob

    Athiest do have a god, they just don’t realize it.

    Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=559435270 Andrew Maw

      You sir are a complete and utter-less moron. I am an anti-theist and I can tell you. I sir do not have a god. Stop making false insinuations that you have no facts to back yourself up with.

  • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

    God hasn’t heard that before, and yes you will have your answers, because God isn’t the cause of the worlds problems, Do you know what he calls athiestists? yeah he actually calls you something….Fool, and no good can come from you., Psalm 14:1, and yes child molesters will get what they deserve Luke 17:1-2 you can look that one up

  • http://www.facebook.com/june.blair3 June Blair

    And whose name do you use when you swear?

  • db

    this is when pride is a sin. For someone to tell god in his face that he’s wrong and that they rather burn in hell for eternity is pridefully stupid

  • Lauren

    Please don’t refer to the Christian god as the Abrahamic god. As a descendant of Abraham, it pisses me off when people conflate Jewish and Christian belief. Jews don’t believe in hell. We don’t believe that people need to convert to Judaism. We don’t believe that fetuses are people. We don’t believe that homosexuality is a sin. Please stop taking the fact that the Christian right are jerks out on us. Thank you.

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  • BILLY BOB JOE

    Seriously? Just, seriously guys? Can Atheist and Christians just get along for five seconds? To the Athiests, everyone is entitled to their own free will given by God which has caused evil people to exist freely. I am fine with atheists who respect other people but I am annoyed with the types of atheists who won’t even try to look at it from another point of view and are complete and total assholes. To the Christians, everyone has the right to do as they want and to worship whatever God, person, or tree they want to worship. I believe in God but I don’t go around scaring people by telling them they will burn in hell for not worshipping him! If they don’t want to worship him then that is their problem and something they will have to deal with when they choose to. So be good Christians and respect them!

  • Carla Tee

    I was lucky, I was raised by a wonderful, great man who was an atheist. Even if I didn’t have to recover or detox from religion into humanity, he did. He was raised strict Catholic. He respected his mother and father, so he didn’t raise the atheist flag around them. He didn’t want to upset them, or make them feel bad as if they failed in some way. After they passed, he made it clear to us that he not only thought it was just plain ignorant of modern intelligent human beiings NOT TO USE their intelligence to reason, think, or try to make life better here for the better good. He saw relgion for what it was a scam. IT hurt him that people killed people based on unsubstantiated beliefs. Not facts but beliefs!!, it pained him to see children being scared to stay inline or “bad things will happen”. He also never threatened s with the BOOGIE MAN because he didn’t think it was a parents job to make up some story to scare a child half to death just to make him behave, He said that was child abuse. I suppose he could see where that doctrine followed people into the grave. I think worst of all he despised religion because it divided and separated people. It thought it a waste that good time was being wasted on God and religion when we could have been doing something really constructive. Instead of people praying for half an hour, they could spend half an hour with a lonely elderly person. Instead of giving money to the church, give it to a humanitarian organization (there are many to choose), instead of wasting your precious moments waiting for a change he felt you should go out and make the change happen.
    He is the greatest man I have ever known. I could go on..lol. But when he developed prostate cancer, I watched him go from the strongest man on earth (in my eyes) to a weak suffering man whose most painful moment’s were when his dignity had been compromised. First, if a God cold make my dad suffer like that with a disease HE created, I would turn my back on HIM in judgment. Second, if someone as decent as my dad didn’t get into Heaven because he was an atheist, its not a place I would want to be anyway. I God better he hope He isn’t real because if he is, if he made my dad suffer, beg and cry Ill be one pissed off daughter!!

  • Truth

    I think you are talking to the wrong God. I can make up a God right now and just because my god condems you to a place worse than hell that doesn’t mean you can just throw the idea altogether and live a egotistical life throwing a few coins here and there saying you care about others more than others do.

    And yes most christians will not make it either, according to the bible, it’s written there :P . Oh yeah there is no hell in the bible, do your research it’s a mistranslation and doesn’t add up to the God of Jesus. Plus there’s a difference in metaphors and real things. Jesus on earth wasn’t going around killing babies was he?

    Now if you want to take the side that you like, the quran, the hell thing, the killing and then call it a day…well in that judgement day. I think you would have no excuse.

    If that day even comes for you, it might you certainly have more chance than I do for I have done much worse things :) .