I don’t think your bible means what you think it means

I’ll set this long article up by saying this is based on a thread from our facebook page. I posted the picture you see below and it led to dozens of comments of agreement and the eventual religious troll explaining how they saw god’s gift.

The troll’s name is Shay Kossovsky and he is from Israel. I will put his text in quotes. The responses are from one of our readers named Alex Edwards (with quotes and help from EvilBible.com). You decide who has the better answers in this debate.

It all started when I posted: “A gift that is followed up by punishment for those that don’t take it is not a gift at all… it’s a threat!”

Shay chimes in with…

All the “bad” and “punishment” that we, as humans, see is only good.
Good that we don’t understand from where we are right now.
A good example would be when a parent tells hes kids to stop playing and come eat – or taking the kid to the dentist.
Even if the kid will cry about it or disagree with it – it dosen’t mean the parent is abusive or wants to damage his child – it actually proves that he cares about his kids.)

And that is the point exactly

God gives only gifts, those that look away still get the same gifts exactly.
God is not zeus or some grandpa in the sky,
he is the reality you live in, he renews the genesis every second, he gives you the air that you breathe and the will to live, every breath and every second.

If what you want only this world, you will get it.
If what you want is to live in god’s grace, hes first intention for us – thats what you’ll get.

Thats free will right there! you get what you want
God’s grate benefit is giving everyone exactly what they want.
Asking us to love eachother, and not be cruel, as you can see from the rules he gave mankind to follow to let us live as brothers: tell me if you are really (really) against them.

1) Make a jugment system, with human rules and upholding the rules (the law).
2) Incest is forbidden
3) Murder is forbidden
4) Stealing is forbidden
5) Eating parts from a living animal is forbidden (cutting parts to eat from a living animal).
6) Do not curse his name.
7) Do not follow other gods (-Paganism is forbidden).

So if your an atheist and don’t curse god, and not a criminal according to the law of seemingly all countrys, you’re pretty much ok :)

Shay Kossovsky, when did god condemn incest? He forgot to condemn slavery, genocide, rape, torture, kidnapping, and child molestation… but cursing his name was one of the big ones? Hmmm (mind you, I knew what was coming and was just setting him up to prove him wrong).

You seriously think rape is not forbidden?
Just to make it a bit more clear;

the are 613 commandments in the book of god -
365 you must not do – amongst them you are forbidden to commit (not in any order of importance):
Fraud.
Gossip (very severe).
It is forbidden to place an obstacle in the way of the blind [it also means, before you jump to any false conclusions, not to curse the deaf and ALSO not to fool someone in what he dose not understand well Eg. sales persons falling on a "sucker" (for he is blind in that manner)]
you are also forbidden to hit your parents (punishable by death – by god himself, not man)
you are also forbidden to block the mouths of cattle.
AND you must not destroy the environment – which was not possible for man in the biblical times. – greenpeace anyone?

About children, its is forbidden to lie to children (even a white lie like “if you point at the moon you’ll get sores” or “if you don’t finish your food a cop will come and be angry at you”
so it is very redundant to say, molestation.

Rape is very much forbidden.

the is also a to do list the other 248 commandments:
examples for some, not in priority order:
respect your parents
seek justice
seek peace and “chase” it.
stand up for old people, and respect them (Leviticus , 19 /32)

better now?

also
when one enslaves another (including any kind of animal or even a simple worker – god’s command is to give the enslaved (including any kind of worker or animal) the better food you have, and in you have one pillow, the one working for you should get it, if you have a house with a roof and a house with a poor roof, you get the one with the poor roof AND you must set him free after 7 years.

Genocide is murder (mass murder) – and is strictly forbidden.

if you have anymore questions I will be more than happy to answer, but remember:
if you want to prove a mathematical sentence, you must first teach numbers and arithmetic rules.

If you do not wish to learn than say so.

I don’t understand nuclear physics or even agriculture, but I won’t say it’s false if I didn’t study it well.

incest is forbidden in Leviticus 18/6
where you are also forbidden to see the genitalia of anyone but your wife.
(thus making rape and prostitution redundant)

not including medical procedures.

Another reader responds that we shouldn’t have to work for a gift or it isn’t a gift. Shay jumps on that with…

Erik Rossi – Do you see people go to the gym?
Why are they able to carry so much, work so hard and run so far (while getting seemingly nowhere?)
they pay for it and their happy about it.

while others complain that they parked their car on the 3rd row in the parking lot instead of the first like they wanted?
or have to carry shopping baskets and complain.
they get free exercise AND they complain.

Who enjoys money more? people that worked for their money or people that inherited a lump sum?

Free gifts are overlooked, and not enjoyed.
if you want to enjoy what you get, you gotta work for it.

Now gimme a smile and lets get to work :)
everything is for the better.

Then, finally, Alex has his way with the bible… if you are going to quote it, we can too!

Shay
Basically you’re convinced that when god does anything it’s moral. However let man follow his lead and then he’s condemned for it.

COMMANDMENT SIX: ‘You shall not murder.’ 

COMMANDMENT EIGHT: ‘You shall not steal.’

What does god command Joshua and the people of Israel to do when they enter Canaan?

God commands Joshua to take the land (STEAL) and give it to the followers of Moses. God further commands Joshua to kill (MURDER) everyone currently living there that is not Israeli. Joshua and his armies manage to do this quite well and this will become the first recorded act of genocide.

Off the top of my head, that makes two of the first 10 commandments. Take a look that other laws of Moses and you’ll just how deliciously evil the God you claim really is.

It doesn’t matter of course because the simple answer is that all of these things, if they did occur, were the result of men and not some supreme being. Arguing over God being good or evil is a mute point when it’s obvious he is man made. The real object of scorn is the men who wrote it and carried out the acts.

Incest

MARRIAGE OR COHABITATION WITH A SISTER DENOUNCED.

Cursed is he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father. (Deut. 27:22.)

And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter, . . . it is a wicked thing. (Lev. 20:17.)

ABRAHAM MARRIED HIS SISTER AND GOD BLESSED THE UNION.

And Abraham said, . . . She is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother. (Gen. 20:11, 12.)

And God said unto Abraham, as for Sarah thy wife, . . . I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her. (Gen. 17:16.)

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness” (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’

Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” [The child dies seven days later.]

This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

Yep, I think that about covers it. Believers need to stop pretending that the bible is some sort of amazing moral compass and accept that for all the good it teaches/preaches, it is equally full of nasty bits. You can’t cherry pick. Take it for what it is in its entirety and rationalize it away if you have to. But, don’t pretend it isn’t evil. Humans do so much better with moral issues when we leave mythology and fake divinity out of it.

  • Janet Van

    Sadly, Shay’s arguments are suffering a bit from a language difference, I think, because I can’t quite follow how some points relate to others, although in total, his English is better than a lot of native born Americans. It seems like he thinks he is refuting the counter arguments but reading exactly what he has written, he is not.

    Plus, if he is Israeli, is he a Christian? I want to see Christians — whose charge it should be to follow the life and commandments of Christ, who did not require slavish devotion to the OT, even the fundamentalist Baptists who taught me said that — refute their slavish devotion to a couple of OT quotes they interpret to mean it’s OK to bully gays and deny them secular, political rights when they don’t follow the rest of the OT to the letter, and ignore the spirit of Jesus Christ. A follower of Judaism can bring insight into the OT, for sure, but it’s Christians driving us crazy here in America and they are the ones I want brought to account.

    I’ve gotten tossed off Christian/Christian-leaning FB pages because I bring up the whole “dashing babies heads against the rocks” command. One time, I had someone post repeatedly in all caps PROVE TO ME THAT’S IN THE BIBLE. And when I cited the chapter and verse, plus a few others also quoted here, there was deafening cybersilence. And within 10 mins, I was kicked off the page. It made my day, and I am not, nor was I trying to be, a troll. In fact, my argument was positive in favor of the way most nominal Christians live, and that most Americans who say they are Christians are not fanatical wingnuts, and that being anti-gay is a social practice that merely appropriates out of context verses from Leviticus while ignoring things like a ban on multi-fiber clothing.

    As for who has the better argument: That’s a trick question, right?

  • Alex Edwards

    Janet
    I wish you would stay on point. You went off on a rambling monologue which was nothing short of a vapid response. If you’re going to criticize my argument then you could at least provide the necessary information of “where or how” so that I may argue my side.

  • Alex Edwards

    Ha whoops , my iPhone didn’t show me the top portion of your post so when i read it i thought you were criticizing me on my response. However if that is the case then my statement still stands.

  • NoriMori

    @Alex, What response? What are you talking about?

    Great article. One small nitpick: It should be “moot point”, not “mute point”.

  • Alex Edwards

    Ha! I didn’t realize that it said “mute” lol.
    I was in response to Janet, though I think I was under false impression from the get go.

  • Truth

    I dare you to challenge a well versed believer and not some guy on a forum. I will sit face to face. Video debate.

    • EvolutionKills

      Your point? William Lane Craig also presents himself well in a debate where he controls the format and has the last word; but that doesn’t make him any less full of shit, or his arguments any less terrible, or his tactics any less sleazy.

    • Light

      Amen

  • Artemis

    Kudos. I am a former Christian that has been awakened and proudly say that it is because of these and many more evil passages that I have renounced the faith and see it all as fairy tales. I am a new atheist and wear it like a beautiful headpiece.