The best argument against Christianity…is the story of Christianity.

I have corrected many of his errors. Please consider reading my corrections.

I see no evidence to believe in god. I will not waste my life supporting a church that hurts so many people. The atheist community is a wonderful place. No going back.

Hahaha! What is this!?

Atheist: It’s silly to be a Christian. This is why.

Christian: To quote: “…God is real and He is good…” That is it. No supporting argument, no reasoning, no logic, nothing!

This has to be the worst example of a counterargument I have ever witnessed. Why even type it? I am so frustrated by willfully ignorant people like you.

Actually no. You do not “know God is real”. You feel that god is real or you are convinced that god is real. These things are distinctly different.

Nobody is pushing against ‘him’. We are pushing against the irrational and dangerous belief in ‘him’ and the intolerable behaviour of those who believe in ‘him’. Two entirely different things. You either know that and were just trying to provoke a response or you simply refuse to accept that not everybody shares your delusion which means you are intellectually dishonest which happens to be one of the behaviours we would like to see you rid yourself of.

Christians do not believe that humans become angels when they die, but that angels are separate beings that God created along with our universe.

No… He just gave a perfectly sound argument against Christianity, were was he ignorant? Your just as closed minded as he is anyway, if you weren’t you would simply try to debate this argument, but instead you just insult him acuse him of bieng ignorant with no reading behind your accusation.

This needs desperately to be addressed, and though I am certainly not the most capable, I seem to be the only one who has taken any time to do so.

1. This is not a rebuttal. You did not contest the original statement, so this needs not be touched upon.

2. You are accepting as fact that what your teacher considers to be a rule of grammar applies not only in language, but also applies consistently throughout the whole of the physical universe. That’s absurd.

3. “Hell wasn’t created intentionally.” You have compromised your god’s omnipotence by suggesting an unintentional act on his behalf.

4. If your god is corruptible, he is not infallible. You have again compromised one of the basic traits that makes your god a god.

5. I will agree that Genesis is considered myth, and submit that you should probably extend this to include a considerably larger portion of your book.

6. Your admission in the first half of this statement is admirable, and I respect you a bit for it.

7. “God created the tree of knowledge (the tree you speak of) to test Adam and Eve.” And here you have compromised your god’s omniscience, for tests are only necessary in the absence of knowledge.

What is left for you to call this “being” a god? By the claims you have made here, he is not omnipotent, infallible, nor is he omniscient. I’m going stop right here, as every argument made beyond this point seems to rely upon the basic assumptions you have made here, which we can clearly dismiss.

On a side-note, I found your closing comment to be extremely arrogant, as you’d not even given any opportunity for your points to be reviewed before proclaiming yourself the “winner”.

I realize this post is a bit old. However, people are still reading it, and I hope that this will promote positive discussion on the points that have been made.

A rebuttal of a rebuttal…

1. How do you know? Regardless, a perfect being (as typically used to define the theistic god) would have no deficiency. Thus, he could not be bored, because he would never lack for mental stimulation. To become bored would be to have a deficiency, and thus no longer perfect. Presupposition combined with bad logic and ignorance. FAIL.

2. How do you know? How is evil required to have choice? If you believe in a Heaven, then you believe that there exists a place better than here. Does Heaven have no choice? Does it lack all freedom because there is no evil in heaven? We can still have hardship and meaningful choice without wars and genocide. Once again, presupposition combined with bad logic and ignorance. FAIL again.

3. How do you know? We cannot prove the existence of ANY gods in our reality, let alone prove their presence or non-presence in other planes of reality that they themselves have no evidence for their own existence. And doesn’t the ‘lack of God’s presence’ that you claim to be in Hell, a violation of God’s omnipresence? And isn’t eternal torture for finite crimes the very definition of injustice? Once again, presupposition combined with bad logic and ignorance. FAIL again.

(Just watch, this is becoming a trend)

4. How do you know? Also, how can our sin corrupt God’s nature? That means we mere mortals have the power to corrupt God’s very nature (Justice) by proximity to our sin, thus God is no all-powerful or perfect. Once again, you seem to lack any imagination or rudimentary reasoning and logic. Presupposition combined with bad logic and ignorance. That’s 0 for 4 so far.

5. How do you know? You claim that the first 2 chapter of Genesis are myth. How did you come to that conclusion, and what stops us from concluding the rest of the Bible as similarly mythic? If it’s all fables and myth, why not Jesus and your God? And if the first 2 chapters are myth, what basis do you have to claim we’er all terrible sinners without the original sin of Adam and Eve (regardless of the fact that it flies in the face of personal moral accountability, but I doubt you’d understand that)? Presupposition combined with bad logic and ignorance. That’s 0 for 5 so far…

6. How do you know? Simple argument from ignorance. “I don’t know, therefore God”. Sad, pathetic, and flawed reasoning. 0 for 6 so far. Damn, this is not looking good for you.

7. How do you know? Didn’t you just claim that the first 2 chapters of Genesis are myth, yet you still continue to use them in your arguments as if they actually existed. Pick one and stick with it, they can’t be ‘mythic’ only when it’s convenient for you to defend your faith! Also, in the story, God never explained ‘why’ they should not eat from the tree. ‘Because I said so’ is weak and infantile justification. Moral accountability extends only as far as your knowledge. So if they didn’t know ‘why’, then they are not morally accountable, because God failed in his duty to properly inform then as to why they shouldn’t eat from the tree. Also, the immediate punishment of death, wasn’t immediately carried out. So is God a liar too? Damn, 0 for 7 so far.

8. How do you know? To quote Sam Harris, “Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn’t care to, or he doesn’t exist. He’s either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick and choose wisely”. A loving parent wouldn’t use entrapment combined with eternal torture on their own children, so I would expect better from a perfect and loving god. 0 for 8 so far, and I don’t expect it to change anytime soon.

9. How do you know? Walking across the street to talk to an attractive woman is sin? Really? That’s a literal take on the Bible, were Jesus does say that to have adulterous thoughts is to have committed adultery already. Great, good to know just how deluded you are. You live in a celestial North Korea, a reality where you can be convicted of thought crime; the very definition of totalitarianism. By this same logic however, just thinking about helping others is just as good as actually helping others! Next time a hurricane hits the coast of Florida, lets all just pray about it and see how many homes magically rebuild themselves, right? Thinking happy thoughts is just as good as helping, right? 0 for 9.

10. How do you know? Want to know what would be easier for God than enacting an elaborate Rube Goldberg mechanism to save everyone from the Hell he himself created? Just forgiving everyone. Is God not powerful enough to just do this? Why the human sacrifice? What argument can you make for the morality of vicarious redemption, something many find to be immoral (this is the source of the modern derisiveness of scapegoating, and Christianity is scapegoating writ large). And once again, baseless claims on the natures of other realms of existence than have not been demonstrated to even exist. 0 for 10 so far.

11. How do you know? The great flood, if taken as literal truth, goes to show just how short sighted and imperfect your God is. In the light of modern scholarship, it hows the ancient roots of the polytheistic pagan Hebrew among their polytheistic pagan contemporary neighbors; such as the ancient Egyptians, Canaaties, and Babylonians. The story is a updated take on the flood in the Story of Gilgamesh, which was most likely not even the original version of a ‘flood myth’. Oh, sorry, you probably didn’t even know the ancient founders of your religion were polytheistic pagans (if Abraham and Jacob existed, they were pagans). Whoops. Well, the more you know. 0 for 11 so far, hot damn.

12. How do you know? And how was Noah righteous, but all of the children, babies, and the unborn children of pregnant woman not ‘righteous’? This also makes your God both a proponent, supporter, and agent of genocide and mass abortion. Also, doesn’t that contradict the passage in Romans 3:10, “as it is written ‘there is none righteous, not even one’ (NAS)”. Whoops, Bible contradiction. 0 for 12 so far.

13. How do you know? And once again, referencing the first few chapters of Genesis to support your point AFTER you’ve already stated that they are mythical. Pick one point of view and stick with it. You seem to REALLY like a literal interpretation, except when it doesn’t support what you want it to say or mean, That is both hypocritical and intellectually dishonest. Way to break your 9th Commandment for the sake of Jesus. But it’s okay to lie, so long as you pray for forgiveness, right? You make me sick. 0 for 13, half way through and you’re still at 0%.

14. How do you Know? Getting tired of that question yet? I know I’m tired of writing it, but it underlies everything you’ve written. Once again the problem is vicarious redemption, weather animals or human. It is a plainly immoral act, to think yourself absolved of the responsibilities of your own actions, by killing another creature. That you can’t or won’t see this for the atrocity that it is belies your religious brainwashing. Also, whenever an ancient Israelite violated the Law, and one which carried the penalty of death (as per much of Deuteronomy and Leviticious), who in the hell else was going to put him to death but the other Israelites? Are you really so inept that you cannot connect even those simple dots? 0 for 14, an amazing streak cognitive bias and abject ignorance.

15. How do you know? I love how you seem to speak on behalf of God, as if he had explained his messed up and inefficient plan to you personally. The fact remains, that miracles (exceptions tot he laws of nature) seem only to happen in the most superstitious and ignorant times and places. Miracles only happen in places and times where they cannot be verified. Is this the work of a mysterious (and seeming uncaring) God? Or is it simple human psychology? That the more you know, the better educated you are, the less miracles seem to happen? Care to guess which is more probably and supported by evidence? If your God really cared, and if simple belief in him is the cornerstone of entrance into Heave, he has the power to make his presence known beyond all reasonable doubt. The problem is that his very existence is an easily doubtable, easily questioned, and easily argued against. He either doesn’t care, or he’s unable to act, or he doesn’t exist. If any of those three is true, why call him God? For fuck’s sake dude, 0 out of 15, and down the rabbit hole we continue…

16. How do you know? If your God is powerful enough to create the universe, he’s powerful enough to make his will known implicitly. He could make belief in his existence and knowledge of his will and integral as hunger and rest, but he didn’t (or couldn’t, because he doesn’t exist). With eternity on the line, this is a supremely callous and capricious act. And the Ten Commandments as is (or at least the commonly accepted set, not the actual Ten Commandments which end with the ‘not boiling a kid [goat] in the milk of it’s mother) are a terribly short sighted and egotistical set of edicts. Notice there is nothing in there about not harming children, nothing about rape. Graven images is more important to God’s plan for the universe than preventing rape. You really buy that? Are you that callous to the suffering of your fellow human beings? Have you no heart? That’s 0 for 16, and I am left questioning your basic humanity (or lack thereof).

17. How do you know? For starters, this is not at all proof for anything divine. Remember that the Bible is the claim, not the proof. It was also written after the Torah, so how hard would it be to create a story that fulfills a previously written prophesy? Not hard at all, in fact it would be incredibly easy. That passage can also be interpreted (from the Hebrew) that ‘a virgin will conceive’. There is nothing miraculous about a virgin conception in this sense, as a woman can become pregnant on the night she loses her virginity. Also notice how Jesus is never referred to as ‘Immanuel’ after the reference to that passage is made in the nativity story, after this it is entirely forgotten and nobody ever calls Jesus by that name. Even if all of this had happened, a virgin birth would be proof of a virgin birth; it would not prove that Jesus was divine or that anything else he claimed was true, the logic simply does not follow. Go to a community college Logic 101 class before you even try to argue that point. Also, did you notice that a God that condemns adultery, got a MARRIED woman pregnant? A woman who live in a culture that stoned to death people that committed adultery, and by the decree of this God no less. Do you not at all notice the incongruity of how very often God disobeys the very laws and commandments he demands be enforced by the penalty of death? 0 for 17.

18. How do you know? And why the whole charade with animal sacrifice in the first place? If your God is all knowing and all powerful, why did he need to make changes to his laws? Why didn’t he get them right the first time, Isn’t your God perfect? If the sacrifice was needed, why not have Jesus exist before Adam and Eve and get it done first of all? The sad reality is that a child could think up of a more coherent and logical plan than the one your God supposedly implemented, that should tell you something about the intelligence and imagination of the Biblical authors (let alone their wrathful tyrant). Once again, vicarious redemption is immoral. As is the concept of being held accountable for things you have not done, as per original sin. It’s would be comical how monotheists pass ‘moral accountability’ around like trading stocks, or at least it would be funny if it wasn’t so immoral. You’re guilty for what Adam did, but no worries, Jesus can forgive you for what you haven’t done (but will be held accountable for, because God loves you). This is an immoral belief, and an insane one. 0 for 18.

19. If it requires something in return, then it is not FREE. Good god, you can’t even figure that one out. Free redemption would be simple forgiveness, no belief required; and remember that this is well within the power of a being capable of creating the Universe. Those who cannot believe because God refuses to make his presence know in a convincing manner, are doomed for all eternity because we lack the ability to convince ourselves to believe the unbelievable. Remember too that you believe that God created us this way, knowing full well that we cannot believe, yet refuses to show himself, and is content to never intervene and instead let us burn forever. He knows all of this beforehand and yet does nothing. And you call this being loving and just? You have a terribly warped sense of love and justice, and I hope you never have any children, because I’d hate to see you show your ‘love’ to them; as it would most likely involve a can of kerosene and a box of matches. I mean, if it’s good enough for God, it’s good enough for you, right? 0-19, and still sinking.

20. How do you know? And for fuck’s sake, the Bible is the claim and not the proof. You can’t use the Bible to prove the Bible you ignoramus, or else you open up the same fallacious reasoning to all religions. I don’t suppose you’d find it compelling when a Muslim uses the Koran to prove the Koran, do you? Didn’t think so, so you do NOT get a special exemption because you believe in Jesus. Luke can claim to be an awesome historian, that doesn’t make it so. The plain truth is that the Bible runs into problems any time it tires to interact with contemporary history, and exemplified in the infancy narratives. Look at the jumble of scripture that is created by trying to triangulate Jesus birth with the reign of Herod the Great, Cyrenius governing Syria, and Caesar taxing the world. None of those things could have happened together (and the taxing even is entirely made up), and we know that there is a 10 year gap between the death of Herod and the reign of Cyrenius. The timeline doesn’t line up with what we know, and have evidence for, outside the Bible. Try looking at what the modern scholarship and consensus is among Biblical scholars, such as Bart Ehrman and Richard Carrier. Stop being spoon fed from AnswersInGenesis.com or some other such propaganda machine. Do you want to know what would be better evidence than hearsay stack upon hearsay, translation stacked upon translation? Scientifically verifiable and repeatable evidence. Have Jesus turn water into wine under controlled laboratory conditions, and have multiple independent teams verify that he can in fact modify the molecular structure of water into the complex carbon chains found in fermented grape juice. Even then it would only prove that he can change water into wine, not that he’s the Son of God or any other doctrinal obligation. But it would be a good start. 0 for 20, and it’s doesn’t look to improve any time soon.

21. How do you know? Once again, this shows just how little you ‘know’ about your own Bible and the history of your own faith. The Gospels were written anonymously, many decades after the supposed events, by non-eye witnesses. It is hearsay upon hearsay, even assuming that the events actually took place and it’s not all mythic allegory (of which a strong case can be made for as per Richard Carrier). And how can the modern translation be an accurate version? Of what Gospels or manuscripts? There are discrepant and often contradictory copies in Greek manuscripts for almost every single line in the Bible. Many manuscripts contained sections that no longer appear in our modern Bible, and many that do appear in our Bible do not appear in the oldest and best copies of those Greek manuscripts (the story in John about the woman taken in adultery is a later addition to that Gospel and not present in the early manuscripts). Your unalterable and infallible Bible is both fallacious and has been edited throughout it’s history to suite the personal and political gains of those in power. Wake the fuck up already, they are playing you for a fool and you are more than happy to be duped. 0 for 21, why am I not surprised?

22. How do you know? Once again, just because we have a lot of copies, doesn’t mean they all say the same thing. Also your use of ‘manuscript’ is disingenuous. A manuscript can mean, and in the case of the Bible often does mean, a scrap of paper or papyrus so small that it only contains a single word and pieces of others. That is considered a ‘manuscript’ by biblical scholars. And that still belies the point that when compared to historical events around it that we can confirm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_variants_in_the_New_Testament

Try studying that and then come back here and tell us with a straight face what you’ve already claimed. You’re baseless assertions collapse under the weight of evidence and scrutiny. 0 for 22, you’re really on a roll here.

23. If God know everything and is as all loving as you claim, then he should be able to forgive those who carry honest doubt about his existence in a world filled with contradictory claims about multiple gods, none of which have any evidence for their existence. So given the extenuating circumstance of our lives here on earth, one would expect a little mercy. According to your beliefs none of this is to be found from this all knowing and loving deity, showing that he is neither all knowing or loving. Rather he is infinitely cruel, malevolent, and capricious. 0 for 23, how surprising.

24. If God is all knowing, then he would know how to prove his existence in a way so to remove any doubt from anybody the world over. Just because you’re too stupid and unimaginative to figure out how to do this, doesn’t mean that your all-knowing God wouldn’t be able to. Funny how you are constantly putting limits on your limitless God, instead of following things to their logical conclusions. 0 for 24, almost a complete hat-trick. Will you be able to complete the set with a total wash? Lets find out!

25. How do you know? How come a perfect creator of the universe created imperfect beings? Doesn’t our own imperfection show that God is not perfect, because if he was, he would be unable to make flawed creations? He has created a universe more conducive to creating black holes than life bearing worlds, in which the matter that makes up the entire visible universe only constitutes less than 1% of the entire universe? We exist as a think coat of paint on one world, in one solar system, in one obscure arm of one spiral galaxy out of billions upon billions of galaxies (each containing billions of other stars), and this is just within the observable universe. And you have the temerity to think that we’re all terrible, flawed, broke, sinful humans beings (reminding you again, you also believe he made us this way), yet you still think all of this was put in place just for you? Your paradoxically slavish and egotistical mindset shows a level of delusion about the natural of reality that is truly frightening. 0 for 25.

Checkmate? Hardly, you’re so ignorant you don’t even know the rules. You might as well throw up your hands and yell ‘Go Fish!’ at a game of Texas Hold’em, because that’s just how infantile your arguments are to anyone that hasn’t been brainwashed into accepting Christianity as absolute truth.

I hope one day you’ll stop accepting everything on faith, and actually start to question things, to have doubt. But I doubt that, because you probably equate doubt with sinfulness, and thus you’ll never free yourself from your own mental shackles. But many of us have. You know why? Because once you start to doubt and question reality, once you’re more concerned with finding out the truth instead of confirming your own biases, those shackles disappear. Because they were never there to begins with, you only thought they were.